schmevil | *tosses vase*

Current Mood: frustrated
Current Music: Dandy Warhols - Bohemian Like You

Entry tags:

tosses vase

Ok, some fen are stupid. We all know this, right? But I'm increasingly annoyed by a particular attitude that seems to be spreading like a nasty VD. I'm thinking about the kind of fannish appropriation and notions of entitlement and importance that allows fans to think that JK Rowling is cribbing off of and shouting out to fic authors. I find it the gravest of insults to criticize the woman's writing style and choices in one breath, and then suggest that her forays into online fandom are responsible for certain of her plot points and passages of dialogue, in the next.

Fen read the source text and discover subtext, which stimulates fannish discussion, the creation of fanon and all the fun stuff we enjoy. We take from JKR and then branch off from her work. I've always thought that one should approach new canon as freshly as possible and never try to write fannish interpretations onto canon. Reading any other way is dangerous, because it leads to the kind of bizarre arguments found on these FAP threads. How many of us really think that she would alter her original work, because of another's interpretation of it? That she's incapable of crafting a novel alone, without cribbing off her fans?

Many of the arguments for fannish influence on JKR are pretty damn thin and I think they arise because the fans want to feel important and involved. They seem to think that they have a right to be in on the process, because they're appreciators of her work. We have to remembers that fans and fandom come afterward. We are separate from canon, except in our fannish activities - it is through fanfic that we become involved, not in creating canon, but reinterpreting it. Reading it.

I could give you hundreds of examples of this kind of nonsense. "This is a reference to Cassie Claire's DT." "This is a reference to Snarry!" "Slash, slash! She's baiting the slashers." Fen need to remember that these references exist because we read them as being there, not because JKR explicitly put them there. Just like H/D exists as subtext, because fen see it, not because JKR is a secret shipper.

To me, the attitude is insulting to JKR and fen at the same time. It acts to marginalize fannish activity, in that it's not validated until JKR has acknowledged it in canon. Anyone who's had their special shout-out from Rowling is well, special and everyone else is a generic fan.

*hums* I will not be annoyed by trivial fandom issues. I will not be annoyed by trivial fandom issues. Arg!

ETA: If certain scenes read like fic? It's because JKR hinted at them in the previous novels and the fen aren't so incredibly stupid that they missed them. Maybe some fen are slack-jawed fucktards with sloping foreheads, but NOT ALL FEN ARE MORONS. *seethes*

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

THANK YOU. Argh. I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds this utterly ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as the people who seem to think we're not allowed to critique elements of the writing and story and characterization at all.

Bwah!

I think I love you.

This is why I find HP fandom a strange and scary place.

Not to mention that with all the fannish speculation out there, it's nearly impossible that the book would NOT contain some kind of similarity to a popular theory. I mean, for every fan who was like "Percy's totally gonna go evil, and Neville will show his true heroic side," there was also a fan who insisted "Percy will totally show his heroic side, and Neville will end up being the Peter Pettigrew of this generation." Now, half the people are right and half the people are wrong. Because they *guessed* right thanks to the clues in the books, not because JKR is actually paying attention to whatever they do or think. It truly strikes me as the *height* of arrogance and self-importance to actually believe that this is because JKR is cribbing attention from fans, or changing the books in order to cater to what they want.

Don't even get me started on people who whine about her unsatisfactory Draco characterization. Or, well, do, because it's horribly HORRIBLY amusing.

Fen? Isn't that a stinking marsh?

Wow, if these guys are right, then I didn't guess the nature of a Dark Wizard's manor (found in my notes for 'Snape Manor') from her writing -- she somehow stole my notebook for my unposted story and them used them for the Black household! I might have known. She used my biting snuffboxes, and just slightly changed my screaming reflections into screaming paintings. She had the mad relatives. Of course, the various infestations were her idea. Then she cleverly replaced my notes before I noticed!

I feel completely vidicated.

I do suspect she deliberately put in slash references in OotP. Just not for the slashers.

Ten bucks says an editor, after the C&D letters went out, 'suggested' she not put anything in her books that could be interpreted as 'slashy.' Bet it went over like a lead balloon, and that night she added Dudley's comment "Who's Cedric - your boyfriend?" And then some.

"Oh, here, I can have Ron tell Harry 'I got to see Uranus up close, Harry!'" *tappity-tap-tap-Tap* "This'll show'em to tell me what not to put in my book."

On another note - hey, you wanna judge a slash fanfic contest? Wouldn't start until the fall.

~Icarus

Get started. Go, go!

Isn't it ridiculous how people are whinging about Draco's characterization?

Oh, hell. Do I have to start using smiley faces now so that people understand when I'm joking?

For those needing a hammer: the bit saying the death was deliberately vague so as to allow fic writers to play with it was A FLIPPANT MUSING NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. And I will forgo the obvious pun.

I stand by my gripe about the excessive adverbs, though.

Fen? Isn't that a stinking marsh?

*swat* Keep up with the lingo, Icarus. You're falling behind the times. 'Fen' is now the plural of 'fans'.

JKR ripped me off, man! Kreacher is totally a crib of Nappy from Arithmancy and Flowers. I want royalties.

On another note - hey, you wanna judge a slash fanfic contest? Wouldn't start until the fall.

Um. Sure. Tell me more about it?

Hey! Wasn't talking about you. *g*

This is directly almost entirely to the good people of Fiction Alley Park. Did you want me to edit my post to include: "Please note that I understand

isiscolo's sense of humour and this is not at all in response to her recent post." ^_-

I agree with you about the adverbs.

It's only parts of the fandom. I solemnly swear that my neck of the woods is an excellent and sane place to be.

I have said the same thing, in a much kinder way, for the last few days- that we are the appropiaters, not JKR.
The overwhelming arrongance and delusion!Gawd!
It is just a soap opera, people! Really, it is!

I do think Draco saying "I was slashed by a Hippogriff" was a reference. Maybe it wasn't intentional at first, but I see her writing that line, rereading it and screaming with laughter.

ETA: If certain scenes read like fic? It's because JKR hinted at them in the previous novels and the fen aren't so incredibly stupid that they missed them.

Exactly. The portion of the population who thinks otherwise, needs to seek psychiatric help for the problems. Perferably with very strong medication. (or restraints to keep them away from a computer)

Word.

Personally, the thing that made me scream with anger was the spate of 'my Draco/Fred/Snape/Cho is more IC than hers!' that went around my friends list. Because, of course, your fannish extrapolations of a relatively background character are more 'true' to that character than JK Rowling's interpretation. Of course, it's possible for the fans to get characterisation more 'right' than the author who made the characters up in the first place. Of course, you managed to write a 'better' Hagrid/Squid/Molly/whoever than she did. Of course you did.

Sorry, just had to vent a little there. I feel better now.

Draco has characterization? Where have I been? *g*

Thank you for writing this. You've expressed a lot of my recent frustrations, and a part of the reason why I'm not at FA as much as I used to be. I was so insulted by reading that "JKR must be reading fanfic and copying the ideas" post that I had to close my browser window because I knew I was going to start a flamewar. Brilliant as usual, my One True Housecat.

Yeah, pretty soon we're all going to need disclaimers. Maybe we should make up little "IRONY" buttons and post them liberally where needed.

This post not intended to offend either JKR, her supporters, her detractors, people on my friendslist, friends of people on my friendslist, or my mom.

Until I read the linked posts at FAP, I assumed that everyone was like me and when they said 'this feels like fan fiction' about the book, they meant that there was so much subtext being subtexted that it felt like reading fan fiction. Private lessons, angry glares, heated exhanges, etc. I didn't realise that people actually meant, hey, J.K used the word 'slash' which is a shout out to all her slash fans. That's just wishful thinking.

That said, I can see the hopefulness behind that thought, and can imagine why people might want to believe this. It's heartening to think that she's trying to encourage the fandom in this officially frowned-upon behaviour. It's also starting to be a bit creepy and stalker-y to assume that she's 'sending us messages' through her work, and it's downright ludicrous to think of Rowling as actually ripping off stories. I can just imagine a court case in the near future, however, in which a fan tries to prove that his or her version of OotP was online before June 21.

brodie

*hides*

'Fen' is now the plural of 'fans'.

How can there be a plural of a plural?

You're slipping, MHC.

What I like to do is insert "Blaise Zabini" for "Draco Malfoy" whenever I come across one of these moronic rants.

"Oh, isn't it awful what JKR has done to Blaise Zabini! Blaise had so much *potential*! Why, *my* Blaise has so much more depth and angst and realism than JKR's Blaise! It's such a shame, but it looks to me like JKR doesn't really understand Blaise at all! Now the books have been ruined for me, because of JKR's poor treatment of my favorite character, Blaise!"

'Cause I'm sure a Blaise-writer could say all those same things that Draco-writers have been saying. And they'd be just about as stupid.

*chases you out from under the bed and hugs you*

*commits seppuku*

*watches*

My, my.

Fans. Fen. Stinking Marsh. Well, in some cases that's a fairly apt comparison, isn't it?

As far as 'fenish' things are concerned (doesn't that sound like an obscure language?) I'm always behind the times. ;)

Yes, I noticed the Nappy rip-off, but I didn't want to upset you.

Fanfic contest. We're tossing the idea around now.

Goal is to bring to light outstanding new stories written after June 21, 2003. The stories have to be new, but do not have to be OotP canon.

I'm thinking of a contest that's has open nominations (very democratic).

Categories are Drama, Angst, AU, Romance, Humour, PWP, Darkfic, Gen. Open to any and all pairings.

Is panel judged (each judge takes a category, and is preferably a stand-out in that area; by having a judge 'own' a category that eliminates duplicated effort). The judge wades through everything and picks their ten favourites (very autocratic; the judge rules their category).

Then all the judges get together, read all those picks, and pick say, the top three for each category (now, the Republic). The scoring on the last round will be based on onlinewriters 5-point scoring system, so we all back up our choices and squabble as little as possible. You tally their scores, you add 'em up, top score wins - period.

The top ten are listed, the bottom seven are the remainder of the category judges picks.

They are not ranked 1st-2nd-3rd, because that's a pain-in-the-ass, and just stirs up trouble anyway.

I'm talking to one newer slash archive to host it, and so far the response has been positive.

The contest would probably open labor day, (to give people time to assimilate OotP and write) and close Jan. 1st.

For The Judges:
So the work would be to read stories as they get nominated throughout the four months.

Of course, everyone will do their nominations the last few days, just after Christmas. So there will be a sudden flood of reading to do.

They will probably be crappy stories you can discard immediately, mostly people nominating their own work.

Occasionally you'll find something nominated that's not your category, so you say 'Hey' and give it to the proper victim... er... judge.

Then at the end you'll have a bunch of great stories to read in the other categories that you *nah-nah* didn't have to wade through all the crap for. Those you score.

In the end Everyone disagrees about which ones are best (with the occasional rare head-and-shoulders-above-the-rest story), but since we used a numerical scoring system, no actual blood is shed.

End Result: List of top ten stories in each genre, and large archive of current work.

If this materializes, which category would you be interested in having total and absolute authority over?

~Icarus

You've put a lot of thought into this and it sounds great, but I'm curious as to how your going to define the categories. Angst is particularly problematic.

Here's how I'd describe each category:

Best general fic
A stand-out 'general' fic has as its centerpiece an interesting and unique plot. You could take the slash (but why would you want to?) and still have a satisfying read, ideally one that you think about later as engaging the mind is key in this genre.

Bonus points for interesting and original takes on magic.

Best horror/darkfic
A stand-out 'horror' or 'darkfic' has as its centerpiece a suspenseful, and/or frightening tale. It should send shivers down your spine and make you wonder whether one or more characters are really going to make it. It does not have to have a bad ending, nor does it have to be strange. But it doesn't have to have a happy ending either. Ideally it avoids cliches and has much that is unexpected or unusual, as suspense is key in this genre.

Many people have trouble telling the difference between darkfic, angst and drama. The difference between angst verses darkfic and drama, is that both darkfic and drama are plot-driven (something happens - this is what they do), while angst spends most of its time in the characters reactions (something happens - this is what they feel). The difference between darkfic/horror and drama is that the former relies on fear (sends shivers down your spine), while drama fascinates the mind (keeps you reading for the next interesting twist).

Bonus points for eerie use of magic, and chilling settings.

Best humour/parody
A stand-out humour or parody has as its centerpiece, well, a good laugh. There is however, a reason why this is the most difficult genre to pull off, as people do have different tastes. This category encompasses subtle ironic humour, snickers, to full-on broad slapstick. A stand-out humour fic made you laugh 80% of the way through it, rather than having just one funny line.

A stand-out parody will have at its core an intelligent and often unnoticed observation. Bonus points for successfully funny observations that you couldn't say directly without getting skewered. Example: "Save the whales? Why save the whales? How many whales do we really need? I say five: one for each ocean." That takes guts, and it is funny.

Bonus points for humour fics that are unique, as surprise is key to this genre.

Best romance fic
A stand-out romance story has as its centerpiece a powerful relationship. Regardless of the pairing, you should find yourself emotionally invested in the success or failure of the relationship. The characterisation is essential, the main characters should seem very real. Look for for believable portrayals of sex and interpersonal relationships, as over-romanticizing (re: bodice ripper) is the failing of this genre.

Bonus points for clear characterisations of characters outside the key relationship, and unique set-ups to bring the main pair together.

Best angst fic
A stand-out angst fic has as its centerpiece compelling emotional torment. Ideally you should be miserable reading this story, yet can't stop reading, and at the end experience a near cathartic release (either from a good or bad ending).

Many people have trouble telling the difference between darkfic, angst and drama. The difference between angst verses darkfic and drama, is that both darkfic and drama are plot-driven (something happens - this is what they do), while angst spends most of its time in the characters reactions (something happens - this is what they feel). The difference between darkfic/horror and drama is that the former relies on fear (sends shivers down your spine), while drama fascinates the mind (keeps you reading for the next interesting twist).

Bonus points for balance, where there is something good to keep the torment from overwhelming the reader.

Best drama fic
A stand-out drama fic has at its core an interesting, suspenseful plot. You should find yourself guessing what's going to happen next, and ideally wrong most of the time.

Many people have trouble telling the difference between darkfic, angst and drama. The difference between angst verses darkfic and drama, is that both darkfic and drama are plot-driven (something happens - this is what they do), while angst spends most of its time in the characters reactions (something happens - this is what they feel). The difference between darkfic/horror and drama is that the former relies on fear (sends shivers down your spine), while drama fascinates the mind (keeps you reading for the next interesting twist).

Bonus points for interesting, unique and surprising plot twists, as that is the point of this genre.

Best PWP fic
Stands for Plot - what plot?
Great porn has at its core terrific sex. It may have an actual plot, it may not, but everything in the story serves to heighten the sexual tension. A stand-out PWP has lion's share of the story engaged in actual sex (or in the case of USTs Unresolved Sexual Tension - yes, they fit here - fantasizing about sex), has vivid sexual description, and a fine awareness of the participants' emotional/mental state as well.

Bonus points for successful visual imagery of the surroundings, often neglected in PWPs.

Best AU fic
Stands for Alternate Universe.
Here the writer engages in 'world-building' and instead of being judged according to canon, they are judged based on consistency and believability. Does the hypothesis make sense? Is the writer consistent? Is there a point to the change, does it make any critical difference between their world and JKR's? (i.e., Harry being sorted into Slytherin would make a vast change from canon, but Harry's scar being diamond-shaped instead of a lightning bolt would not.) Pre-OotP fics that have turned out to be AU are best put in other categories, it would be unfair to the deliberate AU writers to put them here. A stand-out AU story makes you forget the original canon and absorbs you into this new realm.

Bonus points for originality, which is the point of AU after all.

How's that?

*beams*

~Icarus

Well, actually 'fen' has been one of the two accepted plurals of 'fan' for decades. It's not new at all, and it's not just now being used. It's finally filtered from real world fandom into online fandom. I've been hearing the word fen in RL fandom for 20 years or so.

Hmm. Well, to be entirely fair, while "more IC" is a distinctly silly claim, I'm used to including among the main purposes of fanfic the exploration and development of characters the ficcer knows very well are not the real author's main interest and are probably seen by the author very differently -- and if well and carefully done, such interpretations can be fit into canon "behind the scenes" and kept going for quite a while. And sometimes, especially if the character really is one that the author for whatever reason doesn't give that much attention to, that fanfic interpretation may very well be a lot more interesting and better developed.

It has recently been pointed out by

minisinoo that in the vast majority of cases, a book will suffer badly if the author succumbs to the temptation to explore all her supporting characters fully, at least if she does it in the same book. So in a way there almost have to be ones available with room to be developed more than the author would.

We just have to remember that if it turns out the author DID have something else in mind, she's obviously allowed. ;)

Damn. Seems I'm out of the loop too.

I take it back Icarus! ^_-

Are you interested in judging?

~Icarus

Meep. I totally forgot to respond to your last post - yahoo is playing tricks on me.

Sure thing, Icarus. It sounds like a lot of fun. ^_^

I'm out of the loop regardless. *chuckles*

~Icarus

Woo-hoo! Just heard back from 'The Harry Potter Insane Asylum' -- Crazy Iris and Firey Disposition have agreed to host the contest!

So which category (or categories) would you prefer. I'll be honest, I consider you a stand-out author in the Angst category in particular, and think you'd be a great judge of, well, anything, but I picture you taking on...

Aw hell. Which category can you imagine yourself reading lots and lots of without throwing yourself out a window?

Oh. Did I mention the bribe of the judges' page at The Asylum, with a link to your website/stories?

~Icarus

I would love to do Angst, Darkfic or Humor. Those are my true loves. I could read reams of those without getting bored - I'd just have to occasionally fight the urge to chuck the fics out the window. I, on the other hand, would stay firmly within the window. ^_-

And no, you didn't mention that bribe. Mmm. Bribes.

Maybe we should set up some kind of vast anti-loop where we share disinformation and generally bask in our ignorance.

Bribes, yeah, we were thinking of a handsome totebag, but then the printing costs went over $10.

My first loves are PWPs, Romance and Humour (though I love gen, too). Don't ask me how I found 'Arithmancy & Flowers' in that case - I honestly don't know!

Oh. That's right.

Snape.

All we need is, well... ideally five other people... but at least someone who goes for Drama and AU, and we've got a team. Hmmm. When does

switchknife come back into town?

~Icarus

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

tosses vase

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

I Love You, MHC.

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Re:

no subject

Re:

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Re:

So...

Re: So...

no subject

Re: So...

Re: So...

Re:

Re: So...