You should read She-Hulk. I will make scan posts and link you to the awesome until you submit.
It was still wrong wrong wrong, because he knew she wouldn't choose to be with him if she knew he was Iron Man, but I don't think he manipulated her interest. That implies a maliciousness that I don't think he felt.
I take your point. I think it would be better if I said that he was unconsciously manipulating Jan, while being conscious of his ability to manipulate others, and of Jan's emotional makeup - so he knew he could do it, but didn't admit to himself that he was doing it. The reason that I think he manipulated her interest is that he makes a concerted effort to be what she wants. Yeah, that's something that everyone does at the start of a new relationship, but in the context of his sudden interest in her, and his obvious emotional need, I do think that it's more than just their being compatible and Tony's being on his best behaviour. I would have to reread the issue to support it, but that's my gut feeling. ;)
Now granted, this is a matter of interpretation, but I read that as an indication of how desperately he wanted a relationship with someone he truly liked and trusted.
No, I agree with you completely, and his argument with Steve does really bear this up - he was very defensive in that scene. Steve's rebuke is doubly painful, because it exposes Tony's dickery, and it could be interpreted by Tony as a rejection, a removal of Steve's emotional support.
But I must admit, after actually reading those issues, I've been surprised that no one seems to realize that Tony was also in a very emotionally fucked up period during that relationship.
I tend to think of this in relation to Hank Pym - the hint of sexualized violence or abuse tends to blind you to what's going on with the guy. So you get all these fans and writers who are convinced that Hank is a 'wife beater', when it was clear to me that physical violence was never a part of their relationship, outside of that one incident. I think that as a reader, male or female, it's hard to get past certain things. I mean, Tony/Jan has been troubling me, but now that I've started to talk it over, I'm starting to see more of what was going on with both characters. There's a distastefulness to certain subjects, that makes you want to either dismiss the character, or dismiss the subject. In the case of Tony/Jen, I kind of want to dismiss THAT subject - I can has retcon?
Jen's marriage was annulled, after it was revealed that her feelings for her husband were the result of a 'love zap' by an ex. It's an incredibly stupid storyline. Actually, most of the stories that explore Jen's sexuality are as mixed up, and weird as Tony's. Shockingly, a lot of comic book writers don't know how to handle the subject with maturity. *g* Anyway, by the time Tony and Jen have their fling she's single again. I'm with you on the no-married-women thing - pretty sure I've read the same thing, though I can't recall where.
no subject
It was still wrong wrong wrong, because he knew she wouldn't choose to be with him if she knew he was Iron Man, but I don't think he manipulated her interest. That implies a maliciousness that I don't think he felt.
I take your point. I think it would be better if I said that he was unconsciously manipulating Jan, while being conscious of his ability to manipulate others, and of Jan's emotional makeup - so he knew he could do it, but didn't admit to himself that he was doing it. The reason that I think he manipulated her interest is that he makes a concerted effort to be what she wants. Yeah, that's something that everyone does at the start of a new relationship, but in the context of his sudden interest in her, and his obvious emotional need, I do think that it's more than just their being compatible and Tony's being on his best behaviour. I would have to reread the issue to support it, but that's my gut feeling. ;)
Now granted, this is a matter of interpretation, but I read that as an indication of how desperately he wanted a relationship with someone he truly liked and trusted.
No, I agree with you completely, and his argument with Steve does really bear this up - he was very defensive in that scene. Steve's rebuke is doubly painful, because it exposes Tony's dickery, and it could be interpreted by Tony as a rejection, a removal of Steve's emotional support.
But I must admit, after actually reading those issues, I've been surprised that no one seems to realize that Tony was also in a very emotionally fucked up period during that relationship.
I tend to think of this in relation to Hank Pym - the hint of sexualized violence or abuse tends to blind you to what's going on with the guy. So you get all these fans and writers who are convinced that Hank is a 'wife beater', when it was clear to me that physical violence was never a part of their relationship, outside of that one incident. I think that as a reader, male or female, it's hard to get past certain things. I mean, Tony/Jan has been troubling me, but now that I've started to talk it over, I'm starting to see more of what was going on with both characters. There's a distastefulness to certain subjects, that makes you want to either dismiss the character, or dismiss the subject. In the case of Tony/Jen, I kind of want to dismiss THAT subject - I can has retcon?
Jen's marriage was annulled, after it was revealed that her feelings for her husband were the result of a 'love zap' by an ex. It's an incredibly stupid storyline. Actually, most of the stories that explore Jen's sexuality are as mixed up, and weird as Tony's. Shockingly, a lot of comic book writers don't know how to handle the subject with maturity. *g* Anyway, by the time Tony and Jen have their fling she's single again. I'm with you on the no-married-women thing - pretty sure I've read the same thing, though I can't recall where.