You should read She-Hulk. I will make scan posts and link you to the awesome until you submit.
*laughs* But I'm already following Iron Man, Captain America, Mighty Avengers, Marvel Adventures: Iron Man, Marvel Adventures: Avengers, Immortal Iron Fist, and various mini-series (two, at the moment...I think)! Do I really need another title to keep track of? And make other people to acquire for me?
I take your point. I think it would be better if I said that he was unconsciously manipulating Jan, while being conscious of his ability to manipulate others, and of Jan's emotional makeup - so he knew he could do it, but didn't admit to himself that he was doing it.
*nods*
The reason that I think he manipulated her interest is that he makes a concerted effort to be what she wants.
Hmmm. Yeah, this is totally true. And Tony Stark knows more about what she wants and/or needs right now than he should, because Iron Man knows the details of what went on between her and Hank. Inappropriate, thought not intentionally malicious, and (as you said) very much driven by Tony's emotional need at the time.
Steve's rebuke is doubly painful, because it exposes Tony's dickery, and it could be interpreted by Tony as a rejection, a removal of Steve's emotional support.
That didn't occur to me until you said it, but oh, so true. *hugs Tony*
I tend to think of this in relation to Hank Pym - the hint of sexualized violence or abuse tends to blind you to what's going on with the guy. So you get all these fans and writers who are convinced that Hank is a 'wife beater', when it was clear to me that physical violence was never a part of their relationship, outside of that one incident.
I wonder how I would have reacted to that story line if I'd read it at the time it was released, stretched out over the months. Coming at it after the fact, I've always been totally bemused by the fact that people always refer to Hank's "history of domestic violence". A single incident does not a history make! But people have very emotional reactions to that type of violence, so I do see why it loomed very large in people's minds.
There's a distastefulness to certain subjects, that makes you want to either dismiss the character, or dismiss the subject.
*nods* I understand completely. Sometimes, when I get to a part of canon that I don't like, I just don't want to think about it. Not think about it, not talk about it, and I want the canon to stop dealing with it ASAP so that I can start ignoring it. The fact that the nature of comics canon makes it so easy to pick and choose what canon you "keep", mentally, makes it that much easier to ignore difficult subjects.
Which is not always a bad thing, but sometimes poking at them more does reveal interesting things about the characters. (Of course, sometimes it just reveals how little the writer of the story line knows about the characters...)
In the case of Tony/Jen, I kind of want to dismiss THAT subject - I can has retcon?
Wait long enough, and it's almost inevitable. *g*
Jen's marriage was annulled, after it was revealed that her feelings for her husband were the result of a 'love zap' by an ex. It's an incredibly stupid storyline.
Argh! The ex being Starfox, yes? I think I read that somewhere else, probably in another post of yours. Or maybe I'm thinking that because I read Starfox's appearances in the Avengers not too long ago.
Actually, most of the stories that explore Jen's sexuality are as mixed up, and weird as Tony's. Shockingly, a lot of comic book writers don't know how to handle the subject with maturity. *g*
*laughs* Oh yes, very shocking. *g* But frustrating, too. :-( It's sad that the sexuality of strong women is so often screwed up.
Anyway, by the time Tony and Jen have their fling she's single again.
That's...better? Hard to be sure, given how mixed up this story line seems. :-(
no subject
*laughs* But I'm already following Iron Man, Captain America, Mighty Avengers, Marvel Adventures: Iron Man, Marvel Adventures: Avengers, Immortal Iron Fist, and various mini-series (two, at the moment...I think)! Do I really need another title to keep track of?
And make other people to acquire for me?I take your point. I think it would be better if I said that he was unconsciously manipulating Jan, while being conscious of his ability to manipulate others, and of Jan's emotional makeup - so he knew he could do it, but didn't admit to himself that he was doing it.
*nods*
The reason that I think he manipulated her interest is that he makes a concerted effort to be what she wants.
Hmmm. Yeah, this is totally true. And Tony Stark knows more about what she wants and/or needs right now than he should, because Iron Man knows the details of what went on between her and Hank. Inappropriate, thought not intentionally malicious, and (as you said) very much driven by Tony's emotional need at the time.
Steve's rebuke is doubly painful, because it exposes Tony's dickery, and it could be interpreted by Tony as a rejection, a removal of Steve's emotional support.
That didn't occur to me until you said it, but oh, so true. *hugs Tony*
I tend to think of this in relation to Hank Pym - the hint of sexualized violence or abuse tends to blind you to what's going on with the guy. So you get all these fans and writers who are convinced that Hank is a 'wife beater', when it was clear to me that physical violence was never a part of their relationship, outside of that one incident.
I wonder how I would have reacted to that story line if I'd read it at the time it was released, stretched out over the months. Coming at it after the fact, I've always been totally bemused by the fact that people always refer to Hank's "history of domestic violence". A single incident does not a history make! But people have very emotional reactions to that type of violence, so I do see why it loomed very large in people's minds.
There's a distastefulness to certain subjects, that makes you want to either dismiss the character, or dismiss the subject.
*nods* I understand completely. Sometimes, when I get to a part of canon that I don't like, I just don't want to think about it. Not think about it, not talk about it, and I want the canon to stop dealing with it ASAP so that I can start ignoring it. The fact that the nature of comics canon makes it so easy to pick and choose what canon you "keep", mentally, makes it that much easier to ignore difficult subjects.
Which is not always a bad thing, but sometimes poking at them more does reveal interesting things about the characters. (Of course, sometimes it just reveals how little the writer of the story line knows about the characters...)
In the case of Tony/Jen, I kind of want to dismiss THAT subject - I can has retcon?
Wait long enough, and it's almost inevitable. *g*
Jen's marriage was annulled, after it was revealed that her feelings for her husband were the result of a 'love zap' by an ex. It's an incredibly stupid storyline.
Argh! The ex being Starfox, yes? I think I read that somewhere else, probably in another post of yours. Or maybe I'm thinking that because I read Starfox's appearances in the Avengers not too long ago.
Actually, most of the stories that explore Jen's sexuality are as mixed up, and weird as Tony's. Shockingly, a lot of comic book writers don't know how to handle the subject with maturity. *g*
*laughs* Oh yes, very shocking. *g* But frustrating, too. :-( It's sad that the sexuality of strong women is so often screwed up.
Anyway, by the time Tony and Jen have their fling she's single again.
That's...better? Hard to be sure, given how mixed up this story line seems. :-(