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Feedback in May
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fluterbev wrote an interesting post about feedback as currency. She's got an excellent look at how different the writing-feedback equation looks from the other side. Some writers view feedback as payment for a job well done. Bev says:And few readers ever seem to express their giving of feedback in terms of it being payment. Fanfic is freely available on the net, and anyone can read it. Why, unless they have a particular investment in doing so, should readers pay for it terms of feedback? And if stories are read via fanzines instead of on the net, the reader has already paid a monetary sum to read it, so why should they pay again by sending feedback?
musesfool posted her views on feedback. Vic says:But the fact of the matter is, no one is under any obligation to read, to finish, to like, or to comment on any piece of fan work they come across. It's really awesome that people do, and it can encourage writers/artists to produce more stories/art/whatever. But an obligation, as in, I created this and you must pay for it now since you read and enjoyed it? No. (The exception being gift exchanges where the fic/art/vid etc. was created for a specific person, often to their specific requests. Then there is an obligation, as there is with any gift, to say thank you, at the very least.)
And there's lots of talk about how we do this for free and don't get any compensation yada yada, and I... don't know that that's necessarily true. I get the compensation of knowing I wrote a story, I made a thing that didn't exist before, and 99% of the time, it's a thing that makes me happy. I post that thing because I hope it will make other people happy. Sometimes, it really does. Sometimes... not so much.
destina has a list of 23 Reasons Readers Don't Give Feedback. I like these ones: 22. Because they don't see your story as a gift to them, and they bristle at the notion they are somehow obligated to thank you in return. In fact? They probably think their feedback to you is the gift. And who's to say they are wrong? Not me.
23. They see writing feedback as a chore. Certainly writing a story can be a chore sometimes, for some writers; why would writing feedback be any different? If fandom is supposed to be about having fun, it makes no sense to do what doesn't make you happy.
There is so much confusion about the writing-feedback equation. Personally, I read so much more fic than I write and only feedback a tiny percentage of what I read. The reasons for that are aptly covered by those posts, but writers, make no mistake - you will never find a Unified Theory of Feedback, and you will never, ever find a reliable way to compel readers to post more feedback. And you should seriously stop trying. There's nothing more loathsome imo than attempts to make what is by nature a gift (produced freely, for free) into an obligation. You can't add on after the fact, a moral imperative to feedback, when it wasn't in the initial contract - you posted your fic openly, online, and perhaps requested feedback, but didn't require it. Therefore, you cannot position feedback as payment, obligation or imperative. It must be as much an unlooked for gift as the fic itself. I say must, because those demands for feedback-or-no-more chapters will always get some response, but are imo ultimately corrosive to the writer-reader relationship. Not only must the reader perform on command, but now the writer must too - having received feedback s/he must produce that next chapter, or renege on the fannish contract. And that's just fail.
Bev says that the reader isn't obligated to write feedback, unless s/he's personally invested in doing so, for whatever reason.
I am personally invested in writing feedback. I may not have been writing much of it lately, (for reasons that are unimportant at this juncture, or however the quote goes), but I enjoy giving feedback. I really like talking about fic. There aren't many places in fandom, particularly eljay fandom, where it's cool to talk about people's fic. There's some sort of invisible line between general meta, and discussing individual stories, outside of the writer's own forum. Comment threads are probably the best place on eljay to have in-depth fic-talk. I also really like talking fic with writers - finding out what went on behind the scenes, what their process was, that kind of thing. So feedback? Is win win for me.
As I said, I haven't been writing much feedback lately, but I've come into some free time and I'm setting a challenge for myself. Back when I was posting on Fiction Alley Park, we had this club where you set yourself feedbacking challenges, and then posted on the challenge thread, when, where and to whom you fbed. If it was more generally interesting fb, you might repost it for other people to read. The point was to a) generate fic-talk; b) share your appreciation with the writers; and c) engage in a little community development by getting some multi-directional conversations going. Oh yeah, and have fun. I don't know if this club still exists - it's been years since I posted at FAP - but while I participated, it was great.
I'm declaring the month of May to be my personal Feedback Challenge.
My goal is to write 30 pieces of feedback of 100 or more words, exclusive of story quotes.
I will post about my progress in this journal and tag the entries 'may feedback challenge'.
I might reproduce the fb here, if I think it would make for an interesting discussion, after asking for permission (as a courtesy) from the author.
This challenge isn't about paying fic writers back. It's about sharing my appreciation for their hard work, and indulging my interest in talking about fic.
I would be delighted if other people set themselves a Feedback Challenge, because I want to hear what other people have to say about fic. *I have a tiny flist, so if you think this is an interesting idea, or you think your flist would be interested, please
ETA for clarification: you set the terms of your own challenge.
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*will pimp post tomorrow*
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i do like showing the authors how much i appreciate the time and effort they gave to give me something that I don't necessarily deserve
Ha, I know. Sometimes I'm a bad fan and deserve to be sent to bed with no fic.
Nice icon, btw.
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it makes me laugh every time....
but i dunno how to make moving icons yet.... i'll figure it out this summer i suppose
*responds with funny icon*
And you seriously need to make that icon. I too lol at that part so much.
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But I don't expect everyone else to always leave feedback. Learning how to do so myself sure taught me how damned hard it is to leave feedback. Especially feedback that has any detail at all!
On the other hand, feedback is the only measure I have for whether or not a story was good and/or successful in it's intent. If I don't get much feedback on a story, I don't think, "Oh, well, they weren't in the mood." or "Hey, it's finals, maybe everyone is just too busy." What I do think, always, is, "Well, I guess that story kink of sucked."
Even if it's not true, it's how it feels. :-( None of which is meant to be a guilt trip for anyone, just me musing on what feedback means to me.
Also, feedback can be an excellent way to make new friends in fandom. When I find someone really interesting and want to chat with them more (and they're an author or artist), I make a point of leaving feedback that could be a discussion starter, so that if they're interested in chatting, there's an opening. It works startlingly well, most of the time. :-)
(Incidentally, I also treat feedback left on my own work the same way, but from the inside. I intentionally do my best to write feedback replies in proportion to the length and detail of the feedback. So if you (universal "you") write, "That was great!" you get "Thank you!" back. But if you write three paragraphs on why you liked it, I try to make sure to write at least three paragraphs musing on the things you mentioned. I figure if someone's trying to get to know me better, or wants to chat, I need to give them a chance.)
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Yeah, I think that fbing is as much a learned skill as writing fic. You have to muddle through, trial and error, until you hit on what works for you. I have A Process for fb, just as I have one for writing - not that I consciously developed one, each developed as I practiced.
Even if it's not true, it's how it feels
Absolutely. I felt horrible when my remix had no comments for the first day or so, while other people's stories had like, four. After I got over my internal pout fest (I say internal because I don't think it's ever a good idea to whine publicly about fb), I let it go, and consoled myself with reading other people's fic. Of course, I eventually did get fb on that story, and it was good - thoughtful, detailed. The crack of fb.
Also, feedback can be an excellent way to make new friends in fandom.
iawtc. A good number of my long time fandom friendships started through fb. Actually, I made a new friend in the comment thread to my remix this year. :)
I intentionally do my best to write feedback replies in proportion to the length and detail of the feedback.
I try to do this, but don't always succeed.
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followed someone else's flist*
I know of several people who just don't ever give feedback, without having a real reason... however, neither of them is an author themselves.
For me, wether or not I give feedback, depends very much on where I read it; an lj comment is quick to write, plus I might even get an answer (which is of particular importance when my feedback includes more than "OMG awesome!") and some sites offer review features. However once it gets to the point where I have to copy an email adress and open my mail program it's likely I won't write anything (even though whenever I did I got very nice replies).
But generally, I think of how even the tiniest piece of feedback given to me makes my day like few other things do, and if I can give that feeling back to someone, then damn I will.
I think "finding out what makes people write feedback" is one of these impossible tasks that only have a solution in utopian societies. XD
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I honestly think that it doesn't even OCCUR to many people to send feedback. When I first started reading fic, lo those many years ago, I didn't really see requests for fb, or author's notes, for that matter. I glossed over them on my way to the fic. It wasn't something I thought about until I saw myself as part of a community.
However once it gets to the point where I have to copy an email adress and open my mail program it's likely I won't write anything (even though whenever I did I got very nice replies).
This is definitely a factor. I send (and receive) a lot more feedback now that most fics are posted on journaling services, or archives with review boards, or embedded email forms. The more effort goes into feedbacking, the less likely I am to bother.
I think of how even the tiniest piece of feedback given to me makes my day like few other things do, and if I can give that feeling back to someone, then damn I will.
iawtc.
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Oh, yes. And if you even try to give it consistently, there are two separate processes--one for how you leave it, and one for what you say. It was easier for me to figure out what to say than how to be consistent about commenting, probably because I know what I like to get in my fb and what can irritate me.
Absolutely. I felt horrible when my remix had no comments for the first day or so, while other people's stories had like, four.
Oh yes, that's the worst--when you get no feedback at all for any significant period of time. Especially if you usually do! Even if I later get more for that story than is normal, that initial dry period still sticks with me.
After I got over my internal pout fest (I say internal because I don't think it's ever a good idea to whine publicly about fb)
*nodding vigorously* Nor do I specifically request feedback. I might say something that I think will make it easier for people to reply (I know sometimes the reason people don't comment is because they don't know what to say), but I don't say "R+R!". *g* I might have in the past (disclaimer because my old stories also preserve the author's notes *g*), but now it just seems tacky.
I try to do this, but don't always succeed.
I did say I do my best. *g* I don't always suceed, either. Sometimes there just isn't much to say beyond "thank you"!