schmevil | OTPs and LBDs

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OTPs and LBDs

Definitions for the acronymically impaired:

OTP: the One True Pairing which you ship above all others. Some have argued that an OTP chooses the shipper, rather than the reverse and that it's all but impossible for an OTPer to ship anything else.

LBD: a Little Black Dress is a character (usually the writer's favourite) who the writer can pair with anyone. As long as the LBD is in the story, an LBDer is happy to read it.

Ok, so I have this feeling - not backed up by anything even vaguely resembling research, mind you - that OTPers and LBDers are two sides of the same dysfunction, i.e. over-identification and eventually isolation from other characters/groups in the source text. (I'm using the term dysfunction for two reasons, 1) it's nifty and 2) the behaviour/tendency I'm talking about could be considered contrary to the norm.)

A few days ago I wrote a post on OTPs and H/D in particular, which talked about how being an OTPer can limit one as a writer. The same is true for being a LBDer. Most OTPers and LBDers over-identify with their character(s) and since they're writing them exclusively, the two factors combine to allow the writer to subtly (and usually) unknowingly write his/herself onto the character(s). This is when you see ballerina!Draco (as mentioned in the linked post), or skaterboy!Lex.

This is not to say that there is anything wrong with having an OTP or a LBD. I'm merely trying to suggest that focusing on one character, or group of characters limits one's writing.

It's difficult to escape one's fellow writers in a social context and even more difficult to avoid their stories. We're in this part of the fandom because we like to read and write fanfiction, so it's just slightly more than absurd to claim fandom and - by logical extension - fanon have no influence on us. Fanfiction is not a singular activity, it is communal. Like everyone else with strong preferences, OTPers and LBDers tend to group together - think of ships and cliques. Over time one develops the illusion that this group is all of fandom.

I think it's easy to see that is going to be limited, if only in the scope of one's imagination. Unless one is particularly rebellious, one will be regulated by the group, perhaps without even realizing it. It is in this sense that having an OTP or an LDB can be dangerous for a writer. Again, it isn't necessarily limiting, but it is more likely to be so, than an OTP/LBD-free state.

musesfool has an excellent post on the whys of OTPing, but I can't find it as my computer is being wonky. (Where is it Vic? Where?) If someone could link me that would be fantastic. It was her post that got me thinking about the similarities between an OTP and a LBD.

Like Vic, I would argue that a LBD chooses the writer, rather than the other way around. There is a near-visceral connection to the character and eventually over-identification. One feels that one knows the character intimately and consequently, can see enough layers to the personality to make him/her sexually and emotionally flexible: a Little Black Dress. Here's how it works - the LBDer can find a way to pair the LBD with any character, not matter how canonically implausible. They can do this because they see something in the character that someone else (read non-LBDer) cannot. Hagrid/Lupin is impossible, you say? Well someone for whom Hagrid is a LBD would argue otherwise. She knows they work and she'll tell you how if you let her.

Vic has OTP tendencies and it should be obvious to anyone who's chatted with me that I have LBD tendencies. Cheifly I over-identify with Severus Snape and Lex Luthor and it's a constant trial to resist that. I resist it because if I didn't? My writing would be all about MHC!Snape and MHC!Lex and therefore Of Teh Suck. Every time I take a break from writing one of these two and try out someone else - Lily, Ron, Lillian, Lana - it's amazingly refreshing, as if canon has been reborn for me. It's clear that I've been putting too much of myself into Snape or Lex and have been putting too much of that construct into my reading of canon. Judging by conversations I've had with other LBDers and the attitudes of rabid Snapeslashers and Lexfans, I think I can safely say the same is true for others.

Thoughts?

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I think limiting fandom to fanfic writers at *all* is absurd, but that wasn't the question...

What do you call someone who enjoys the challenge of pairing anyone with anyone at least semi-realistically? 'Cause that's me on the rare occasion I have time to write something (much less finish it :P ). Kind of a variant of LBD, but with EVERYBODY, lol.

I find that the vast majority of fic people DO limit fandom to fic writers and readers. There is canon, fanon and reviews, nothing more.

I'm not sure what I'd call your behaviour. Really fucking cool? ^_-

It's all fun and games until somebody busts out the Hermione/Filch smut. :P

Well, if it's good I'll read it.

... Although I would rather not envision Filch romantically involved with anyone, personally. But, then, I am the anti-sex.

Infidel! Everyone knows Filch/Mrs. Norris is the One True Pairing!

er, you don't know me, so I shall point out that I really am joking

*snerk*

Fawkes/Mrs. Norris

The post is here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/musesfool/402068.html

Glad you found it interesting.

I find that the vast majority of fic people DO limit fandom to fic writers and readers. There is canon, fanon and reviews, nothing more.

I find this attitude really fucking annoying. Maybe because I came into online fandom through discussion newsgroups rather than fic, but there is a lot more to fandom than fanfic. If Fandom-At-Large is a city, Fic is a large neighborhood group of neighborhoods, perhaps analgous to the island of Manhattan for the City of New York, but there are other boroughs and other ways of expressing fannish love.

Not to mention those lurker/readers, we always seem to forget about.

Thanks for the link!

I was a lurker for years and then I finally jumped into fandom through discussion boards. Fic came last for me. I've been involved in OL fandom for seven years and I started to write last year.

*nod*

There are almost as many paths into fandom and fic as there are fans, but I guess people who start and stay on the fic side never see it from any other angle.

Not a particularly luminous response here, but I think you've put your finger on why The Snape Fangirls bug me. It's not because they like Snape--I'm sure he can be a fascinating creature if you can actually get him to sit still--but because they never talk about any other character, never seem to read or write a fic involving any other character, seem to be under the impression that Snape is the only character in the entire universe worth bothering with unless one of them is shagging him, etc. (And, to be fair, some of these people write fantastic stuff which I happily fangirl.) Whereas I firmly believe that Snape is not the only complex character in canon (Peter? Albus? Remus? Come on!), and is by no means the only character with potential to be complex (the way JKR characterizes there's potential for adding complexity in practically *any* character, and that's part of the fun); and I don't take much personal interest in the fellow, so those who deal exlusively in The Snape are often kinda lost on me.

But that was a bit of a ramble in and of itself. In my case, you're preaching to the choir--while I have my own favorites to write about, I tend to be and try to be as versatile as possible when it comes to both characters and pairings. Wish I could say something more interesting, but it's not my day.

Gah. Now you're starting me off on my own ramble. o.O

Yes! I hate having a conversation with someone who only wants to talk about one character. Snape is by far my favorite, but I'm also fascinated by Albus, Minerva, Ron and everyone else.

Keep rambling, you know you want to. *g*

Primarily, I agreed with you, girlie. Over-identification to the point of distortion is everywhere - I think that true representations of canonical characters are extremely rare. I am an SV girl, but I read a lot around the place - Harry Potter, Due South at the mo - I go where the writing is good. I find the idea of trying out writing unfamiliar characters fascinating, and I think I will give it a go soon.

Some stuff, however, rubbed me the wrong way. I found your comments on OTPers overly general and some of your statements veering towards sweeping. Are you thinking about one person or one fandom in particular, and letting that colour your thoughts? As I see it, the case against OTPing is much stronger in HP than it is in SV. In HP, there are a plethora of potential pairings, and almost no obvious MFEO signals. People are drawn to the rival-fuck, understandably, and things get a little crazy with the characterization to make that stick. In SV, however, you have a much smaller cast, and many intricate paradigms to play off, as well as the sexual undercurrents that good slash feeds on.

[Now I think of it... I've never read any Clana. You know any good stuff?]

Skaterboy!Lex is an abomination. I don't dispute this. But... I think that the issue of identification and writing is somewhat more complex than the relationship you are portraying. I identify with my characters. That doesn't mean I am going to have them overindulge on nutella and fantasize about red shoes (though really, i can see it with lex). I am just wondering what it is that is so noble that these non OTP free-spirit writers are doing. So they can write a Martha POV and a Pete POV in the same breath. Is that inherently superior to someone who has connected intimately with the character of Lex and writes 6 stories in a row about his relationship with the people around him? Is all fanfiction not, to some degree, about identification? Identifying with a character doesn't mean you make them perfect. It doesn't mean that you want to smooth out every ruffle that makes them who/what they are. It doesn't mean that you have to skew canon to make them the centre of their universe, necessarily. It can just mean that you see something human in a fiction, and that you are drawn to explore it. I find that laudable, and worth supporting. I suppose I'm saying that OTPosity can plausibly encourage lazy writing, but that it can also be the start of an amazing imaginative journey. Yes.

So what's MHC-Lex like? I like whatever version of him you've come up with so far. Heh. I bet MHCLex gets pissed off easily. Actually... you could be on to something there...

You know what? You should be on AIM. Now. So we can chat.

I actually was thinking about HP primarily now that you mention it and yes, I seem to have let that colour my thoughts on this. Woe. I'll have to do yet another post on OTPs. Something tailored to SV. I think Clex is several essays all its own.

I came off sweeping because I was trying to speak in really general terms. I wasn't trying for an essay on OTPs and LBDs, so much as hoping someone else would come in and tell me what they thought of them. This was supposed to be a conversation starter. ^_-

So, re non-OTP/LBD people: of course their fic won't be emipirically (if it's possible to measure) better, but I think it's easier to be a non-OTP/LBDer and write a balanced fic because you're not trapping yourself in the fic. I take your point about seeing something human but again, I'm trying to get at he very extremes of this kind of behaviour and not the mild OTP/LBDers. I'm not trying to call one group superior, just... pointing out the limitations of one. Would it come off better if I did an essay about the limits of the other position? *g*

MHC!Lex... has a really terrible temper and sometimes has visions of killing people when he's very annoyed. He has a short fuse but manages to hide that most of the time. He's two-faced in the mythological sense of the term, never sure of where he stands on an issue unless provoked. It's only in passion that he really knows who he is, the rest of the time he's just going with logic and hoping for the best. He's not in love with Clark and isn't really attracted to him. He doesn't know what love is, doesn't know how to love unselfishly and is better able to give to strangers than friends. He's a geek and he's ambivalent about this, as he is about many things. He wants everything all the time, but he also wants to be able to sit back and just play the world like a puppet master. He's scared to death of himself when he's not busy pretending otherwise. He sets himself up for failure and downplays his intelligence because he wishes he didn't have so much power and ability to bear responsibility for.

Sorry dahling - I have a terrible habit of posting huge sprawling comments and then falling asleep. You have to be careful with us Europeans. And you probably only wanted to lure me onto AIM so you could do that voodoo stuff on me anyway.

but I think it's easier to be a non-OTP/LBDer and write a balanced fic because you're not trapping yourself in the fic
I agree with you. As an incitement to over-romanticised nonsense, the OTP is unparalleled. Then again, of course, 'trapping yourself in the fic' is fucking fun, and I'll probably always do it to a certain extent. Especially for sex scenes. Then I'm trapped - nay, smushed - right there in the middle.

I'd like to hear your ideas on CLexers though. Go on, break my heart.

He's two-faced in the mythological sense of the term, never sure of where he stands on an issue unless provoked. It's only in passion that he really knows who he is, the rest of the time he's just going with logic and hoping for the best.
I think this is a side of him people often like to ignore. His instability on many issues, the slippery grip he has on his temper. I like those things about him. I wonder if his eeeevil path to darkness will require him to get a better rein on it. Lose the fire. Hm.

He's not in love with Clark and isn't really attracted to him.
I'm afraid I don't understand your earth logic...

doesn't know how to love unselfishly
Who fucking DOES on that show? Textually, he has loved two women. Now I am all over the idea of exploring the mommy-lexy bond, because there's something sick going on there and we all know it, but he did forgive Pamela with no incentive to do so. This is a messy one. Chat! Chat! Chat! I'll bring my rabbit foot to ward off your evil magicks (why the fuck is there a k there?) and we'll argue. Woohoo!

Finally someone's told me what OTP means! I know, I sound stupid. Oh well. Personally I hate the Draco/Gryffindor shippers. They annoy me on a fundamental level, as it is canon-impossible (new word!) and therefore loses all meaning to me.

I think it's easy to see that is going to be limited, if only in the scope of one's imagination. Unless one is particularly rebellious, one will be regulated by the group, perhaps without even realizing it. It is in this sense that having an OTP or an LDB can be dangerous for a writer. Again, it isn't necessarily limiting, but it is more likely to be so, than an OTP/LBD-free state.

Oh, I would certainly agree that OTP (or even OTC [One True Character, which is another way of saying Little Black Dress]) is limiting. It's like taking one bit of fanon as canon.

I mean, I honestly believe that Sirius and Remus are lovers during OotP. I don't know if it's a continuation of an earlier relationship, the culmination of a relationship that never quite got off the ground before 10/31/81, or if they'd broken up over the suspicions or if they had a fling in their seventh year and swore to never speak of it again.

Which means I've got lots of scenarios to play with as a writer, but it also means my view of the characters and the canon is limited by this extra-canonical bit of information that I've gleaned through my reading. For *me*, it may as well be canon, because that's how I view it.

So yes, it can be limiting in that sense.

And yes, the community that springs up around rabid OTPers, be they CLex or H/D or Spuffy or Squidwarts, can be *very* limiting (I'm not in H/D circles, but isn't there something about hair care and leather pants? Much like Angelus, I guess, Draco needs his leather pants) - Logan/Rogue fic must be this, this, this and this (Jean is a bitch, Scott is a priss, Logan has the brains of toast, Rogue is perfect) etc.

And yes, it can be limiting in the sense that one sort of forgets that say, Buffy Summers, Harry Potter or Frodo Baggins is the main character of the actual text, the one on whom so much depends, while one is playing around with Xander or Snape or Legolas.

I do think, though, that for the emotional fulfillment, that investment in a pairing or character can't be matched. It's when the writer's skills begin to atrophy in service of nothing *but* the OTP or LBD that it's a problem.

::looks over list of stories::

I've written a lot of Logan/Rogue stories, but I've also tried to vary not only the plots/themes/nuances of their characterizations, but also written about other characters and other ships, and obviously, other fandoms. *g*

I mean, my first HP story was about Snape, of all people, and my big HP epic (well, in HP it's a tiny oneshot, but for *me*, it's a 15,000 word epic) is Draco/Hermione. Both of which came way the hell out of nowhere.

So I am an example of how one can be OTP and not be *solely* OTP, though I freely admit my limitations.

Is that what you mean?

This is very eloquent. I balk against OTPs, myself (unless I'm jesting, mocking, or otherwise being a smartass), and I'd never heard of the LBD syndrome until you mentioned it. Both are a huge problem in roleplay as well as fanfiction (over-identifying kills the writer, imo), and that's one of the reasons I strongly encourage roleplaying and writing from perspectives across the spectrum ("write as a villain, write as a hero, write as a victim, and then write as a puppy or a five-year-old -- it'll be good for you, honest"), that is, if anyone ever asks me. Which they never do, unless they unwittingly stumble into an RP conversation with me. I should have warning signs around my AIM name. "Don't mention OTPs to this woman..."

I'm not sure how possible it would be to separate oneself from an LBD character, however, once you've identified that strongly. Is it even possible? And is this the same or similar to the complex which occasionally makes us cringe at another person's (or even the original author's) portrayal of a character when said portrayal differs or contrasts our view of him/her?

I'm not sure how possible it would be to separate oneself from an LBD character, however, once you've identified that strongly. Is it even possible? And is this the same or similar to the complex which occasionally makes us cringe at another person's (or even the original author's) portrayal of a character when said portrayal differs or contrasts our view of him/her?

It can be a wrench to switch perspectives when you've invested a lot of emotional energy into one character, yes. (For the record, I OTP Sirius/Remus and LBD Snape). My friend Morgan D and I have a website where we exchange letters in persona, and recently began a lighthearted thread between James and Sirius as teenagers planning a (relatively harmless but embarassing) prank on Snape. And while I had no trouble writing Sirius rubbing his hands gleefully and plotting, I found myself almost self-righteously appalled at his behavior *and my ability to characterize it*. Because I had written *so* many letters from Snape's POV--self-justifying, frustrated, furious, grieving--that I was quite angry at Sirius's actions, even though I'd written those actions myself and although I otherwise love Sirius dearly. Essentially, it felt alien *being* Sirius when I had spent so much time and energy *being* Snape and burrowing into his psyche.

And I must also plead guilty to reading stories or, yes, canon, with Snape and saying "But he doesn't *talk* like that!". Then, of course, I mentally slap myself because he doesn't speak in canon with the same voice I give him--his speech patterns are my own personal idiosyncracy (sp?) for the character.

Must say I agree with

emelerin for the most part. LBDing isn't necessarily about Mary-Sue-ing or even over-identifying - it's just about one's favourite character to write, and often the reason one's in the fandom at all. A good half of the Highlander fandom wouldn't be there if it weren't for Methos, and (despite my Duncan-love) I don't think this is a problem. Spending a lot of time concentrating on a character can make a writer produce some really great stuff on him, because they've thought it through so much. It all comes down to the old argument about a narrow focus versus a diffuse interest.

Of course, there's the downside that an LBDer is missing out on some great stuff. But that's the case EVERYWHERE. You might as well say that it's a crying shame that Fan X isn't into Fandom Y and is missing out on some great stuff because she only has time and interest for Fandoms P and Q.

I understand the dangers inherent in the OTP and LBD syndrome of warping one's view of canon to accomodate them, and gradually failing in the important task of getting one's point across in fic, because it all seems so obvious in the OTPer's own head. But all of this can be avoided if the writer's good. Isn't that what it comes down to, in the end of the day?

Agree with

emelerin, that is. Whoops.

I can't read a fic that excludes the possibility of Duncan and Methos being together. I just can't; it depresses me and sends off all these "WRONG! WRONG!" alarms in my head. Granted, this is a bit irrational. Granted, when I disconnect all my emotions and think about it logically, there's no reason why they have to get together and stay together. But I believe that they should, so that's the kind of fic I read - I read other HL fic too, such as Kronos/Methos, or Methos/Amanda, or Duncan/Random Hot Immortal, but nothing that excludes D/M. And I don't think this is a problem, or excessively limiting. What do you think?

But see, you're already a multi-fandomer. If D/M gets to be too much, you can jump over to H/D or FD/CC. You don't need D/M to mean everything to you. So your OTPing doesn't limit you as much as it would otherwise. Really, it just means that you have very strong opinions about canon.

Well sure, everyone is missing out on something, but I think there's a case for examining the issue and seeing just what OTP/LBDers are missing out on. I'm borderline a LBDer, maybe even a serial LBDer, so I know how much of a fandom I miss out on and even how much of the character I'm missing out on. I find that the longer you play in Methos' head, the more Methos seems to be everything. The character for all occasions. I think that you have to accept limitations on a charcter though and take a step back. Obviously Methos posesses certain traits and acts in certain established patterns, even if we don't know them all. He might have done everything, but he can't be everyone, at least not in the same time frame, you know?

I think serious problems only arise when we're talking about group think. Damn those groups, damn them! That's when you start killing off ideas to better fit into the group and well, studies show that group think is necessarily limiting. It tends to search for a common denominator, which means you're not thinking about the uncommon.

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OTPs and LBDs

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Has to second "Really fucking cool."

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That is just about the best icon ever, btw.

Re: That is just about the best icon ever, btw.

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Replying to myself yet again...

Re: Replying to myself yet again...

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