solidarity vs. allies

[schmevil]

I've seen some debate around the term 'ally', the argument being that it's built on someone else's oppression. How do you feel about calling others/yourself an ally? I've seen the alternate term 'solidarity' advanced ("I'm doing solidarity work" vs. "I'm an ally"). Does this solve the problem/ignore another one?

Poll #3119 solidarity vs ally

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 12

View Respondents

which do you prefer

View Answers

I'm doing solidarity work
3 (25.0%)

I'm a ___ ally
2 (16.7%)

both are cool
6 (50.0%)

neither are cool
3 (25.0%)

Comments

[elspethdixon]

I haven't seen the term "solidarity work" before, but I like it. I would feel weird calling myself an "ally" - I feel like who is/isn't an ally is something that people in the oppressed group in question ought to decide, in a way. It seems weird to just declare yourself one. Whereas you can declare that you want to display solidarity/support.

[schmevil]

That's a good point. I've been reluctant to declare myself an ally, partly because it sounds so presumptuous. Solidarity work makes it sound more like 'we're all in this together', whereas ally could sound... kind of white knight-esue.

[elspethdixon]

Plus, "solidarity" to me sounds like a term that would leave room for different oppressed groups to join together and support each other mutually, whereas "ally" implies that someone's always operating from a position of priviledge (I'm thinking here specifically of the LGBTQIA umbrella community, where people are all different kinds of sexual minorities who experience subtlely different but related kinds of oppression. I think especially there, "solidarity" would be a good word to use. Like, I can't be an "ally" to queer men because only straight people can be LGBTQ "allies," but I can show solidarity as a fellow queer person who's a different flavor of queer).

[dirty_diana]

I do not give a crap as long as they're not failing at it?

[schmevil]

Heh. <3

[rivkat]

I feel awkward using either, but if forced to choose I'd go for "trying to be an ally."

[schmevil]

I've noticed that a lot of people seem awkward with these terms - maybe it's only natural.

[rivkat]

I see the argument that solidarity is better! But it seems to me to have the same issue/potential "get off my side!" problem. Both are about the luxury and privilege of choice, and I'm not sure that can be taken away by language.

[schmevil]

Totally! Although I'm not sure we want to completely erase the luxury/choice aspect, because that's an important part of initially understanding one's privilege. You didn't see it until now, because you had the luxury of blinding yourself etc. And too that the privileged can always go back to being a bystander. It's an ongoing decision to engage, but it's also a responsibility. I don't want to valorize people who've chosen to engage, but on the other hand, I don't want to minimize their continued privilege to *not engage*.

I'm getting rambly. -_-

[crypto]

I generally don't use either term myself, but I'm more comfortable with 'solidarity' because a) I associate the term with an implicit deference and responsiveness to a primary group's leadership and direction (in my world, people engaged in a particular struggle will call upon others to do solidarity actions, but the primary group determines when and how such actions are useful to their struggle), and b) its usual context (e.g. "doing solidarity work") refers to an action-in-progress and not an identity claim.

[schmevil]

I like your point that 'solidarity work' isn't an identity claim, and too the sense of deference it conveys.

I've been wanting to talk about allies vs. generals for a long time, but I've been looking for a good entry point to that discussion. (You are not Jake Sully!)

[whatistigerbalm]

I hate the phrase "I'm an ally" - it's not the kind of label one can self-award, self-authorise.

[schmevil]

Yeah, that's my issue with it too.

[whatistigerbalm]

I am uncomfortable with a good deal of terminology used around DW/LJ in anti-oppression issues (they may well be used elsewhere but I haven't encountered them outside the "blogosphere" so I'll stick to what I know), but another problem I have with giving a name to efforts towards not being a dick to people different and/or less fortunate than myself is that by labeling it I am making it into a choice, one option among many, instead of being the decent thing to do. If that made any sense at all.

[schmevil]

I think both can sound presumptuous. As Jazzy points out downthread, 'solidarity' can conjure images of Che shirt wearing, twenty somethings, who are ~one with the people of the world. So I think what we're seeing here isn't so much a problem of language, as it is one of attitudes.

And yeah, labeling it perhaps has the effect of... making it easier to ignore? Oh it's just those people. I don't agree with that 'stance.' Hmm.

[whatistigerbalm]

[...] making it easier to ignore? Oh it's just those people. I don't agree with that 'stance.'

Yes, exactly.

'Solidarity' for me - brought up in Commieland as I was - means a bunch of things I don't think I can explain to a Western audience well (it's nothing to do with Mr Guevara, for one) and I don't want to replace it with whatever it means to them (I should say 'you' here but that sounds harsher than what I mean and want to say) either, so I'd opt out of that one for reasons of my own. And 'ally'... ally is something that happens in a war. Again, for reasons linked to my own background, I am deeply uncomfortable with using war terms for things that aren't war; I have no intention of preventing anyone else from understanding their community's struggle as a war and using related vocabulary, but for me personally the only thing that's war is war. So, no labels here, just work.

more ally than solidarity, I suppose

[jazzypom]

I like the term ally, because it means that I can be supportive of your experiences, but I cannot appropriate them. Whereas solidarity sounds a lot more presumptuous as in, some random kid in a Che Guevva T-shirt missing the point.

Re: more ally than solidarity, I suppose

[schmevil]

Solidarity comes from an intersectional understanding and I think is more generally used to reflect, say, feminists and anti-racists working together. So solidarity, though the struggles aren't parallel.

As I said upthread, I think both terms can sound presumptuous. Calling oneself an ally can smack of white knighting. So can saying you're doing solidarity work. 13chapters asked over in the LJ mirror - does changing the label, change the work? Maybe. But also, does changing the label, change the problems within the community? I think maybe the problems within are at the root of the discomfort around the terms.

I mean, I sometimes feel like I'm not worth calling an ally, if that makes sense. Like, when I reflect on my privilege and various personal fails, I feel like I haven't earned the title. Perhaps that feeling, and a sense that there's ally bandwagoning going on, is the problem. /rambles

Re: more ally than solidarity, I suppose

[jazzypom]

Solidarity comes from an intersectional understanding and I think is more generally used to reflect, say, feminists and anti-racists working together. So solidarity, though the struggles aren't parallel.

Oh, I see, but in the same breath I do find that a bit tricky. For instance, when gays and lesbians in the US speak about the right to marriage, they compare it to racism, and drinking at separate fountains, which I do find to be problematic. Don't get me wrong, there's a certain sort of apartheid when it comes to say, LBQT rights in relation to the privilege that heterosexuals get. But in the same breath, as a person of colour who pretty much loses out in the case of say white privilege (by which a cis minded L or G or Q can take advantage of), I think that's where teh solidarity falls short for me.

Just as how I wouldn't presume to know about the gay experience, I can put myself as an ally (I think of the term 'friend') and defend and push and support LGBQT rights and their existence, because equal rights are human rights. So, same with me. I'd expect my white friends to pretty much stand by me if racist stuff went down (although, at times I've been pretty much on my own - it's only recently that I've had support from others), but in the same breath, I wouldn't expect them to be like that white guy who voted that he was black on the US census, because he taught black children, was married to a black woman and had black friends. Which made me go :/ because that's so not the point.

Sorry if I'm coming across as being sharp, that was not my intention.

But yeah, for me, I'd more be giving an askance look to someone who said solidarity rather than an ally if our situations are more dissimilar than similar, because the danger might be for them to appropriate.

Re: more ally than solidarity, I suppose

[schmevil]

I hear you, and no need to apologize for sharpness. I didn't sense any, and if there was some, well, it's an issue that's worthy of sharpness. ;)

I think solidarity is a great term for focused alliances. Say, anti-racists, feminists, LGBTQ activists, working together to defeat a particular law, or something that affects all groups. Maybe ally is better for the protracted struggle. idk, still thinking this one over. So much of this depends on the attitude of the ally in question. I mean, I've had middle class people talk to me about solidarity with the working class, who I have wanted to WRECK for their presumption. On the other hand I've had straight allies say the same things, and come off as awesome.

Can I just say though, that the appropriation of apartheid, and the history of slavery, on the part of some LGBTQ activists strikes me as so, so inappropriate and disgusting. Tone deaf, blind, hurtful and thoughtless. D:

I wouldn't expect them to be like that white guy who voted that he was black on the US census, because he taught black children, was married to a black woman and had black friends. Which made me go :/ because that's so not the point.

Whaaaa...?

Re: more ally than solidarity, I suppose

[jazzypom]

I think solidarity is a great term for focused alliances. Say, anti-racists, feminists, LGBTQ activists, working together to defeat a particular law, or something that affects all groups. Maybe ally is better for the protracted struggle.

Yes, I can get on board with this. The thing is, when I was growing up, I knew solidarity to have the whiff of a cause celebre - as in, Free Nelson Mandela, or something along those lines, where people were doing it not because of human rights, but because the struggle was ~beautiful~, so I think I'm having an emotional recoil towards the word, more than anything.

I do like the word ally, because it sounds like someone that will be in the trenches with you, but respect you enough to get out of your way.

Yeah, that white guy. It was around when Obama put himself down as black on the census, and this white guy was like, yeah, the POTUS is a ~brother~. Okay.

[melannen]

For me, "solidarity" is really strongly associated with the labor movement (which apparently seems to mean I'm about fifty years behind the times, judging by other comments here!) but it's weird for me to see it used in other social-justice contexts.

I think I've come to the conclusion that the reason all of the language for that seems appropriative or privileged is that the *concept itself* is appropriative and privileged, so when I find myself looking for a term like that, I rephrase things so it's not about me any more and I don't need the word.

(This is the same strategy I use to get around the fact that I hate all the currently-in-use terms for "all people who are not white" - I've decided that the solution is to rephrase things so that rather than people-vs-people-of-color as my dichotomy, it's white-people-vs-people. It's worked so far.)

[whatistigerbalm]

white-people-vs-people

Oh, I like. I think you just solved a big language problem of mine. Thank you!

[schmevil]

Thanks for all of this, especially:

I've decided that the solution is to rephrase things so that rather than people-vs-people-of-color as my dichotomy, it's white-people-vs-people. It's worked so far.

A commenter on the mirror post also brought up the association of solidarity with labour, so I can see why it would read strangely in other contexts.

[valtyr]

I dunno. I mean, ally is kind of... I mean, oppressed people can decide if you're helping, not you. You can try to help, and sometimes not. So calling oneself an ally seems kind of presumptuous. I don't know.