![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
Pepper Imp/public critique
Recently, some of you have been playing tag with ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
pepper_imp. It's been suggested that this new LJer is the v of ladylestace, who deleted her journal after getting into a rather messy setdown with faith_accompli, myself and a few others. I really strongly don't believe that the two are the same individual. While she has the same stunning lack of social skills, her voice is quite different and she does seem to have a slightly better grasp of grammar, descriptive language and argumentation. There are enough bitches in the world that we don't need to resort to conspiracy theories, especially considering that her chief target, Faith, is a highly visible fandom personality and known for her acidic personality. -.- I've been linked to her journal more than a few times this week, but I don't think I'm going to be joining in this particular kerfluffle, because it just doesn't look to be a) worth my time, b) particularly entertaining. Yes, I do frequently start and take up fights with people for the flimsiest of reasons, but this one doesn't appeal.
However. Not to make a claim on the moral high ground, as you all now how ridiculous that would be, but I will say that it's a bit gauche to suddenly begin publicly critiquing a story, when the author has just offended you.
Blah.
So let's talk about critique. As some of you know, I run![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
badficsupport with cedarlibrarian, which is all about semi-public critique. I'm also a longtime supporter of truly public critique, be it on review boards, communities or private journals. When you publish a piece of fanfiction, you leave yourself open to all kinds of public discussion, whether asinine or critical. You, as a writer, are a public figure and as such, you have to just put up with people calling you tosser, or questioning your sanity. Sure you're free to jump into the discussion with your two cents but I don't think that the position that public critique is in some way wrong is at all supportable. I also don't think that the right to critique need be earned. The biggest idiot should be able to tell the very best writer in fandom that she's a moron. I'd draw the line at systematic abuse, but I think we can all agree that it's a fuzzy line.
1) What do you consider 'appropriate' public criticism? Does it have to be kind, or at least measured? Need it say anything positive at all?
2) Where do you draw the line between bitching and harassment?
3) What constitutes an 'appropriate' response to public critique?
~X~
Yes, I still owe some of you meme responses and replies to comments. They're coming. Slowly. It's just that *whine* I've been really busy. Here's why.
Our stove recently broke down, so my parents went out and bought a new one. They neglected to measure it, as compared to our doors. They decided to forgo the $50 delivery charge and transport the damn thing themselves, in our van. Well.
We've been having trouble with the van lately, so it shouldn't have been such a surprise that once my father got it to the store and secured the stove inside, it refused to start. My parents don't own cell phones, so my father called home, hoping to get in touch with my mother. Eventually she got home, grabbed a quick bite to eat, drove my older brother to karate, and with her best friend, went off to help my dad. They got the van towed to the garage, but now the problem became transporting the stove. By hand.
Eventually, I had to go walk over with the dolly (I won't bore you with the associated drama) and help him wheel it home. So. Good. We've got the stove at the house. It won't go through the door. Ok, we cut it out of the box and try again. Still won't go through. We ended up removing the steel door and unhooking the chain and the rest, from the storm door. Then we discovered that it wouldn't go through the kitchen doors until we took off the stove door, slid it sideways and kind of jimmied it through.
There's more, but suffice it to say that many, many hours later, we have a functional, shiny new stove.
Who's coming over for cookies and pie?
~X~
Oh, I'm also very pleased to note that Canada will be recognizing the legality of gay marriages. Finally. *tosses confetti*
pepper_imp. It's been suggested that this new LJer is the v of ladylestace, who deleted her journal after getting into a rather messy setdown with faith_accompli, myself and a few others. I really strongly don't believe that the two are the same individual. While she has the same stunning lack of social skills, her voice is quite different and she does seem to have a slightly better grasp of grammar, descriptive language and argumentation. There are enough bitches in the world that we don't need to resort to conspiracy theories, especially considering that her chief target, Faith, is a highly visible fandom personality and known for her acidic personality. -.- I've been linked to her journal more than a few times this week, but I don't think I'm going to be joining in this particular kerfluffle, because it just doesn't look to be a) worth my time, b) particularly entertaining. Yes, I do frequently start and take up fights with people for the flimsiest of reasons, but this one doesn't appeal.However. Not to make a claim on the moral high ground, as you all now how ridiculous that would be, but I will say that it's a bit gauche to suddenly begin publicly critiquing a story, when the author has just offended you.
Blah.
So let's talk about critique. As some of you know, I run
badficsupport with cedarlibrarian, which is all about semi-public critique. I'm also a longtime supporter of truly public critique, be it on review boards, communities or private journals. When you publish a piece of fanfiction, you leave yourself open to all kinds of public discussion, whether asinine or critical. You, as a writer, are a public figure and as such, you have to just put up with people calling you tosser, or questioning your sanity. Sure you're free to jump into the discussion with your two cents but I don't think that the position that public critique is in some way wrong is at all supportable. I also don't think that the right to critique need be earned. The biggest idiot should be able to tell the very best writer in fandom that she's a moron. I'd draw the line at systematic abuse, but I think we can all agree that it's a fuzzy line. 1) What do you consider 'appropriate' public criticism? Does it have to be kind, or at least measured? Need it say anything positive at all?
2) Where do you draw the line between bitching and harassment?
3) What constitutes an 'appropriate' response to public critique?
~X~
Yes, I still owe some of you meme responses and replies to comments. They're coming. Slowly. It's just that *whine* I've been really busy. Here's why.
Our stove recently broke down, so my parents went out and bought a new one. They neglected to measure it, as compared to our doors. They decided to forgo the $50 delivery charge and transport the damn thing themselves, in our van. Well.
We've been having trouble with the van lately, so it shouldn't have been such a surprise that once my father got it to the store and secured the stove inside, it refused to start. My parents don't own cell phones, so my father called home, hoping to get in touch with my mother. Eventually she got home, grabbed a quick bite to eat, drove my older brother to karate, and with her best friend, went off to help my dad. They got the van towed to the garage, but now the problem became transporting the stove. By hand.
Eventually, I had to go walk over with the dolly (I won't bore you with the associated drama) and help him wheel it home. So. Good. We've got the stove at the house. It won't go through the door. Ok, we cut it out of the box and try again. Still won't go through. We ended up removing the steel door and unhooking the chain and the rest, from the storm door. Then we discovered that it wouldn't go through the kitchen doors until we took off the stove door, slid it sideways and kind of jimmied it through.
There's more, but suffice it to say that many, many hours later, we have a functional, shiny new stove.
Who's coming over for cookies and pie?
~X~
Oh, I'm also very pleased to note that Canada will be recognizing the legality of gay marriages. Finally. *tosses confetti*
My opinions... feel free to ignore. :)
It doesn't have to say anything positive, but the review/comment has to back up what they say. A vague comment helps nobody. Personally (hopefully nobody will lynch me for this) I thought that
2) Where do you draw the line between bitching and harassment?
There is no line. It has been trodden on so many times by various fandomers that it has all but disappeared into the dust. Some people in the fandom seem to believe that they can do one thing to people, yet when other people do the same thing to them, they are highly annoyed. But if you want a line, bitching is talking about it in your own journal. Harassment is going to the other person's journal to talk about it.
3) What constitutes an 'appropriate' response to public critique?
Well, if you like it then thanking the reviewer is always a good thing. Otherwise, if you don't like it, then ignore it. If you pay it any attention, then most likely than not, you will seem immature. Unless, the critique was so obviously off the mark.
Re: My opinions... feel free to ignore. :)
no subject
I suppose that I define appropriate public criticism as an honest review, in which politics (whether you like the person or not) doesn't come into it. If a story is crap, that should be said. Although reading 20 chapters and then saying that it's crap is a little stupid. However, sometimes a criticism should be slightly more tactful. While you may think "This writer should be banned from writing" in some places that's considered rude and instead, informing them that they may need a beta reader or something similar might work.
Where do you draw the line between bitching and harassment?
When they egg my parents' house. No, seriously, a bitch session can only occur once. Repeated bitching is harassment. Setting up a live journal purely to bitch about someone is harassment (and should be reported).
3) What constitutes an 'appropriate' response to public critique?
It depends whether you feel it was warranted. Admittedly tying them down and beating the critic into a bloody pulp is only satisfying to you (and highly illegal) and should be avoided. Bitching once is cool. Stalking them is bad. Flaming their stories because they did the same to you is frowned upon (unless the reviewer is sexist, then feel free!). Ranting in the privacy of your home is okay as well. (Even if you sound a little mad)
Re: My opinions... feel free to ignore. :)
Hah. Like we did with the sparkling_cider mess? ;)
no subject
1) What do you consider 'appropriate' public criticism? Does it have to be kind, or at least measured? Need it say anything positive at all?
It must be helpful. Why bother wasting your time, and the author's time, otherwise?
I'd think that would be implicit in the "constructive" part. If you just want vent your spleen and register your dislike, well fine, but that's wanking and not constructive criticism. Call it like it is. Constructive criticism's designed to help the author improve. It focuses on specifics, gives concrete suggestions, and gets across the point without forcing the author's back up against a wall.
Other than that, you have a fair amount of latitude. If unkindness is what's necessary to get the author to wake up and smell the coffee, then by all means. CC can hurt, and nobody ever said the world was all peaches and cream. If there's nothing positive to say, and your overwhelming negativity won't shut the author off to your message, then go for it.
I just linked this on
2) Where do you draw the line between bitching and harassment?
I consider harassment to be bitching that doesn't stop. If the other person's bitching right back at you, then fine. You have a flamewar. But if they throw up their hands and say "Okay, you win, leave me alone", then IMHO it's exceptionally bad form to continue. An argument takes two sides. If you continue to bitch when your opponent's just sitting there and not doing anything to you, that's harassment.
3) What constitutes an 'appropriate' response to public critique?
Worst case: do nothing. Silently ignore it.
Best case: Thank them for their help, carefully evaluate their suggestions, and incorporate whatever changes you can.
IMHO, it's never acceptable to flame someone for genuine constructive criticism (I won't get into wankery or other non-construcive criticism). It takes time and effort to criticize intelligently, and by flaming in response, you throw that back in their faces. You've also just assured that you won't be getting any more constructive criticism in the forseeable future (well, you'll likely get quite a bit in the real near term, but you won't be able to hear any of it), which is a singularly stupid thing to do.
See my comment (http://www.deadjournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=sparkling_cider&itemid=25825#t145121) on the sparkling_cider issue.