schmevil: (Default)
schmevil ([personal profile] schmevil) wrote2003-08-24 12:09 am

10 Ways Fandom Has Fucked Canon!Snape Up the Ass With Mischaracterization

ETA: Just to clarify, because a lot of people are reacting the same way. I'm talking about what I see as inaccurate base characterizations, i.e. what makes up the bedrock of a personality. I'm not talking about secondary or learnerd/acquired traits. So, Snape can be a bastard and like books, but he's not a bastard because he likes books.

In no particular order.

1. Sometimes people get the idea that Severus Snape just might be a reasonable man and write fics where he's familiar with the concept of behaving logically, consistently and well, reasonably. He makes sense. He behaves relatively properly, if a bit pissily and actually has reasons for his actions. Reasons that don't seem like they were cooked up by a schizophrenic, crack-addled sparrow. This Snape is commonly paired with Hermione or Harry and is really just a lovably misunderstood misanthrope at heart. He's a big fan of the Socratic method and makes witty remarks with heat-seeking accuracy, neatly shredding his opponents and never, ever seizing up in rage and spitting uncontrollably.

2. There are these fans. They think that clothing really does make the man and assume that because movie!Snape is a big fan of buttons that he's a timelost Victorian romantic hero. Or something. He's prudishly reserved and is not fond of the messier side of life. Sex? We don't talk about that here, oh no. This Snape is endearingly old fashioned, with a stiff upper lip and barrels of dignity. Again, no spittle to be found.

3. People have kinks and fic writers like to project their kinks onto characters - we all know this. Unfortunately for us all, many people just don't use good sense when foisting their nelly-bottoming and spankmecutmeohpleasemakemebleed(butnotinreallife) wussy-ass, faux, masochism onto characters. Here's the thing, Snape trusts no one. He certainly doesn't trust anyone enough to explore his kinks with them. Go on, let's see some evidence that Snape would ever be comfortable expressing masochism. Or even that he'd be comfortable with sexual sadism. I dare you. Kink requires trust and some level of emotional control. Even if he managed enough trust to start, he'd ruin the fun by losing control of himself in mere seconds. With spittle.

4. Did you know that Snape actually has good hygiene? It's those darned potions that make his hair all greasy and the tea that's stained his teeth yellow. He wants to be pretty but it's so haaaaaard. *whimper/sob* Don't you kind of feel sorry for him already? Isn't he so romantic and wonderful and oh god he deserves love!!! To borrow a term from Smallville fandom - WOOBIE.

5. Snape loved Lily so much that when she married James, he turned to the Dark Side. Woe. Or maybe he loved Remus so much that his 'attempt to kill Snape' was scarring. He's never gotten over it. He really isn't driven by hatred and the drive for petty revenge, so much as he is driven by his vast and unending woe. It's quite possible that his mommy never told young Snape that she loved him. This Snape keeps mementos of the object of his unrequited affections and stalks with creepy-but-not-too-creepy obsessiveness. Sometimes he stays a virgin because if he can't have Lily/Remus/Random Gryffindor, then he won't have anyone. Isn't that sweet? And creepy? But kind of sweet? Do you think that maybe he like, cuts himself when he's sad?

6. Once, I was thinking about Snape and wondered if maybe he'd left Voldemort's service because he was offended by the terrible-horrible-no-good-bad things that were going on. Then I laughed myself silly.

7. Some people - people who don't like Snape - have this silly idea that he wants to destroy the world and tortures puppies in his spare time. These people don't understand have the brains of six year olds, it's true, but there are so many of them that it's becoming a concern. This Snape doesn't need a reason to be a bastard, not even one so flimsy as being annoyed by children and generally an asshole. Oh no, this Snape? Is eeeeeeeviiiil. Maybe even eviler than Voldemort. He's pulling strings and seething at the leash Dumbledore has him by, and one day, his plans for armageddon, followed by hot-dead-non-con will come to fruition. Poor Draco and Harry will probably cry on that day, right before Snape rapes them over and over in rapid succession (this Snape possesses a mighty cock that does not wilt) and then kills them in a suitably messy way.

8. While evil!Snape possesses a superior cock, there is another Snape who out-debauches in every way. Yes folks, I'm talking about sex-god!Snape. What? You didn't think that was possible? His greasy hair and nasty disposition probably puts off likely lovers? Heresy! Guards, throw this woman out of the fandom! You see, under all those layers of nasty black robes, Severus Snape burns with the fiery passion of a thousand suns. He wants your body and nothing you do will be enough to resist his smooth-voiced charms. He likes to fuck and fuck often. He'll fuck anything with a hole and he'll make that hole scream for mercy and then scream for more. *swoons*

9. If Snape hadn't been a Slytherin, he'd have been a Ravenclaw. Fanfic told me so. He might be a bastard, but he's a bastard that just wants to curl up with a book, far away from the world. He wants to be left alone to tinker with his potions, uncaring of how they might be used. See, Snape's a teacher and he makes these passionate speeches about subtle sciences and incompetent dunderheads. You know what that means, don't you? He loves to learn. He really, really does. It's just that all these people get in his way. Don't you just love those alternate reality fics where Snape gets to be in his true house and just calms right the fuck down? Ravenclaw!Snape 4eva, y'all!

10. Snape is shy. Endearingly so, of course. He's mean because he's socially awkward and deep down, he really wants you to like him. His mouth gets away from his mind and suddenly he's saying all these horrible things, and hoping that if he strikes first, people won't tease him so much. Poor, poor Severus. Won't someone give him a cookie and handkerchief to mop up that socially awkward spittle?

Of course, I could go on, but why hurt myself even more? *whimper* I think I'll curl up in a dark corner with a good book and my favourite razor, then when I'm feeling a bit better, I'll go out (dressed in my favourite black robes, buttoned up to me eyes) and destroy the world. I sure hope that doesn't make people dislike me, especially not the children of my unrequited love, because then I wouldn't be able to have sex with them.

[identity profile] ex-bellatric192.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 05:28 am (UTC)(link)
Bwahahaha!!!

You are SUCH a goddess! First the anti-H/D rant, and now this! *sacrifices goats in your name*

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 12:17 am (UTC)(link)
Hmm. Could I have babies instead?

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[identity profile] metus-albus.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 05:40 am (UTC)(link)
*spits with laughter* You forgot 'Snape is Harry's father,' which sometimes a subset of 5, but usually a subset of 'claw my eyes out' all it's own.

And I like your icon. Though 'Klaatu, verata, necktie!' is probably my favorite line from that movie. ^_-
ext_2998: Skull and stupid bones (Default)

[identity profile] verstehen.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 05:41 am (UTC)(link)
Uh that was me. I just forgot I was logged into a different account. *is stupid*

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[identity profile] svmadelyn.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 05:47 am (UTC)(link)
*claps hands* I think you actually covered them all!

I am laughing so hard right now. Brava!

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 12:43 pm (UTC)(link)
*bows*

I noticed you pimped the rant. Aw, shucks. ;)

[identity profile] ranalore.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 05:49 am (UTC)(link)
I remain certain a great deal of fanon!Snape is Alan Rickman's fault, but I can't prove it. At any rate, serious Word to everything you said here. Snape is not ultimate evil, he is not an unsung hero, he's just nasty and pathetic and in need of both a therapist and a hygiene routine.

Of course, I also have issues with he'stherealhero!Draco and noredeemingqualities!Harry, so clearly my judgment is not to be trusted.

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 12:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, it would be interesting to track down some oldbies and get their impressions of pre and post-movie Snape fanon. We could also compare teh colume and type of Snapefic being produced. I came into the fandom right after the first movie was releaser, so I can't really judge. What I've read has always been influenced by Rickman's Snape.

I really enjoy ordinary-asshole!Snape. The kind of guy who's someone's neighbor or co-worker from hell. The does nasty things to people and is always waiting for someone to attack him in return.

he'stherealhero!Draco drives me nuts! Grr. Arg.

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I am reading this

[identity profile] dphearson.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 06:51 am (UTC)(link)
at the internet cafe while my date checks out his orders...And I am dying. Simply dying, and he is giving odd looks, and I wanted tell him 'No write your clients' and am spraying the screen with spittle, Snape style.
My Snape has greasy fucked up teeth and knows he's a pain. Still has the lovas, baby.
Snape 4 eva, yo!
Peace out!
Dana, giggling!

Re: I am reading this

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 12:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Ew. Greasy teeth? Now that's just dirrty, girl. ^_-

Hey, have a great time on your date and good luck with his not thinking you're insane.

It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping!

[identity profile] ellen-fremedon.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 07:12 am (UTC)(link)
I find that most of those characterizations are redeemable, when they're not too over-the-top, when qualified by the phrase "and he's a petty, vindictive, paranoid, angy, greasy-haired mean-spirited bastard."

Snape is a repressed Victorian prude-- not on its own a convincing characterization. Snape is a repressed Victorian prude AND he's a petty, vindictive, paranoid, angry, greasy-haired mean-spirited bastard-- this, I can buy.

Snape can still carry a torch for his first love, AND be a petty, vindictive, paranoid, angry, greasy-haired mean-spirited bastard! Snape can be revolted by and ashamed of what he's done in Voldemort's service, AND be a petty, vindictive, paranoid, angry, greasy-haired mean-spirited bastard! Snape can shy and socially inept, he can be a thwarted academic, he can even be an insatiable lover-- just so long as he's also a petty, vindictive, paranoid, angry, greasy-haired mean-spirited bastard.






Re: It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping!

[identity profile] neotoma.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 08:00 am (UTC)(link)
I think I agree with this. Give him depth, but don't forget he's a complete ass even when he's doing the right thing.

I don't suppose you'd like to post this at [livejournal.com profile] snapesupport where we try to keep our Snapes in line with canon?
zoerayne: (Default)

[personal profile] zoerayne 2003-08-24 08:23 am (UTC)(link)
See, my only disagreement with any of this is with the concept that there is a canon!Snape. In canon, he's seen through the filter of an unreliable narrator and therefore any conclusions that are drawn regarding him are likely to be fallacious. (Example: Ask my kids what they think of me right after I've grounded them. Go on.)

That said, the characterizations you listed usually make me want to claw my own eyes out... [g]

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 12:06 am (UTC)(link)
I don't think the unreliable narrator argument is as effective as it might appear at first. Unless one believes that Harry is lying outright, Snape is still a bastard. His in class comments are without a purpose beyond sadism. There is no reason for him to say that he "sees no difference" when Hermione's teeth are cursed to grow. His dialogue alone makes him a bastard.

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pauraque: bird flying (Default)

[personal profile] pauraque 2003-08-24 08:29 am (UTC)(link)
Dear [livejournal.com profile] blackfall,

You are my god.

That is all.

Sincerely,

pauraque
(aka SoberAlien)

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 02:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Does this mean I get babies sacrificed in my name?

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[identity profile] lasultrix.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 09:13 am (UTC)(link)
*dies* Love it. Love it.

I do think a fair bit of these are redeemable, for example: intellectual!Snape (though a Ravenclaw AU just sounds silly), Snape leaving the DEs because the evil got too much for him (he's NOT evil, after all, and he did leave them), Masochist!Snape (only with certain pairings; with a student is believable, I think), and Rational!Snape (rational in *some* respects only).

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 02:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Can I just direct you the conversation below with [livejournal.com profile] ellenfremedon and [livejournal.com profile] flourish?

My fingers are going numb.

And glad you liked it. ^_^

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[identity profile] iibnf.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 09:42 am (UTC)(link)
Brilliant. You weild your big stick with precision and power.

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 03:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm like the anti-Dubya. *preens*

[identity profile] lilith-morgana.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 11:28 am (UTC)(link)

Lovely rant.

While I like a Snape who makes some sense I also want people to mix that with a large amount of pure hatred, vindictiveness, paranoia and general idiocy. Because even if Snape has a masterplan somewhere inside his head, he's likely to fuck it up anyway, because Sirius Black aside, he's the most emotionally cramped, stubborn little asshole in canon.

Which is why we all love him.

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 02:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes! I want a story with evil-Ravenclaw!Snape where he decides he's going to rule the world but screws up completely and ends up in Azkaban. *g*

[identity profile] tinderblast.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 01:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I massively agree with just about everything, particularly THERE'S A REASON WHY HIS HAIR IS GREASY! stories that desperately try to prove how and why the grease mysteriously found it's way into Snape's otherwise pristine world. And, like others, I don't mind reading versions of these cliches when they're utilised in funny or interesting ways (no, it can happen, really).

But. I can't completely agree with #3. There's just something really deeply, innately pervy about Snape. His sexuality would have been deformed from years of being an outcast, he's like an aesthete, a nerd, and a wanna-be hard man all rolled into one. None of which would make him likely to have a partner, and would probably generate in him all kinds of voyeurestic, pervy tendencies.

Here's the thing, Snape trusts no one. He certainly doesn't trust anyone enough to explore his kinks with them. Go on, let's see some evidence that Snape would ever be comfortable expressing masochism. Or even that he'd be comfortable with sexual sadism. I dare you. Kink requires trust and some level of emotional control.

But I think that this contradicts your earlier point about Snape and logic - sex isn't about logic or control, and sooo many people make such silly, irrational mistakes in relation to physical and sexual attraction. I can so see Snape only ever losing control in a sexual encounter (probably anonymous or in a highly coded gay scenario in the bars) or in some other sitation of pseudo-intimacy.

Anyway, everyone has a different version of Snape ...

-brodie

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 08:34 pm (UTC)(link)
The thing about exploring kink, is that sensible people don't choose someone like Snape to play with because he's dangerous, in a most emphatically not-good way. His lack of control would ruin the fun for both of them because he wouldn't be able to stay in the game. Sex is supposed to be fun and most people, even those who are very much into the BDSM scene aren't interested in actual drama whilst fucking. Snape might try to find a partner, but it would be a difficult search, physical attractiveness aside.

Also, voyeurism is non-consensual. It doesn't require finding a partner, or opening oneself up to scorn in any way. It's the opposite of the kind of kink I was vilifying.

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[identity profile] oktober-ghost.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 02:38 pm (UTC)(link)
The last paragraph completely capped off the rant, sort of like a pair of green olives in a dry vodka martini. Brilliant.

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 02:47 pm (UTC)(link)
*bows*

Alcohol similies again? :p

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[identity profile] xandria.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 03:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Ahhh yes... love this.

I could write the same about Lucius. *weeps at fic being written about Lucius*.

Although I see two three types of fanfic (all three types I've written):

1. Canon fic, which painstakingly carries over the characterization from canon.

2. Exploratory fic, which proposes what if scenarios and explores plausible extrapolations from what is present in canon.

3. Fan fic, which is whatever the fuck goes. Most people write this. Most people don't label it AU but should.

I think some aspects of your points, if tempered somewhat and balanced could slide into 2., but it's when they're excessive with the unreal attributes that they quickly fall into 3.

Well said, well said.

Hugs.

X

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 12:20 am (UTC)(link)
Oh yes, write one about Lucius. *pokes*

I think that most of my points can work if they're written as secondary personality traits. Snape's a bastard AND a lover. Snape's a bastard AND a whatever.

It's when the above takes over from the bastardness that we run into problems.

[identity profile] maria-futura.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 03:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I laugh. I laugh so loud that the trees around this house bend from the forcefulness of my laugh-i-ness.

And your predatory Glory (that is Glory, isn't it?) is so adorable.

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 02:47 pm (UTC)(link)
It's a Glory mood set. She's precious. *g*

<3 Excellent list, by the way.

[identity profile] darkeyedwolf.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 05:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Mayhap I just don't read enough Snape fics, but one thing I've never seen before that I'd like to: Snape really being evil and actually spying on Dumbledore for Voldemort, instead of the other way around.

Re: <3 Excellent list, by the way.

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 02:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I've seen it done, but rarely well. For some reason people seem to think that working for the bad guys means that one automatically feels the need to rape and pillage.

[identity profile] sajasma.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 06:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Bravo on this rant! Utterly entertaining and very true. You've managed to encompass every single Snape story I've ever read (uh, mine included). As said by others before me, some of these characterizations are fairly redeemable and work, given the nature of the story and talent of the author, but I think you're referring to authors who abuse their privileges *g*

*kicks puppies and begs to become your minion*

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 03:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Of course you can be my minion. I'm sure you'll do a great job.

And trust me, the you'll love the uniform.

[identity profile] mimine.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 08:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Very amusing list but I was wondering if you have applied it to your Snapes at all. Or is the Snape-as-Narcissa’s-chambermaid in “Metonymy” some sort of parody?

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 08:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Um. I don't think that Metonymy!Snape is particularly OOC if you accept the central conceit of the story, which is that Snape considers the Malfoys to be his friends and he feels indebted to Lucius and Narcissa for their places in his life. I don't think it impossible that canon!Snape could feel good things about people who treated him well and however much of a bastard he is, he pays his debts.

Also, Metonymy is Narcissa-POV and more about her than anyone else. The summary reads: "Narcissa muses on the strange turns of desire and the men in her life." (which is horribly crappy and I need to change it.) Metonymy!Snape is how she perceives him, just as Metonymy!Lucius is how Narcissa sees him and not necessarily as he is.

I would argue that it is IC for Snape to take particular care of someone who he values or needs and the idea of the story is that he needs Narcissa, because Lucius does. And Snape very much needs Lucius to maintain his position in the Death Eaters. Narcissa sees his actions somewhat more selflessly than Snape himself does.

Obviously you interpret the story differently and that may be the fault of my inexperience as a writer, when I wrote it.

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[identity profile] snapeplushies.livejournal.com 2003-08-24 08:31 pm (UTC)(link)
XD Very, err. Well thought out! I'm putting this in my memories...

[identity profile] raggedclause.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 12:33 am (UTC)(link)
Dude, Snape told me that the reason for his greasy hair is because he's really so god-like that, in order to keep the girls away, he has to look ugly. But he's not really. He just doesn't want girls throwing themselves at him; he's rather be loved for his inner beauty.

He told me.

I really liked number 9 and number 6. Hee, hee. This was great reading though-- I really enjoyed it :)

-Sibyl

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 02:44 pm (UTC)(link)
*smack*

[identity profile] bowdlerized.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 12:51 am (UTC)(link)
This was great to read, though I agree with some of the above commenters that in moderation, many of these characterizations can be made acceptable.

I think there's a preponderance of bad Snape-fic, at least in part due to the fact that Snape is such a unique character and doesn't really fit into the normal character boxes--e.g. angsty romantic hero, misunderstood man who secretly has a heart of gold, etc.

Anyway, hope you don't mind if I friend you.

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 02:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Course I don't mind.

Um, my response has to be see above, since I'm tired of typing the same argument over and over. ^_- My discussion with [livejournal.com profile] ellenfremedon and [livejournal.com profile] flourish covers your points pretty well.

[identity profile] metaphoracle.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 02:06 am (UTC)(link)
As if you have room to talk, Sevvie.

[identity profile] driftingwind.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 06:20 am (UTC)(link)
After reading your list, I just want to know what Canon Snape is to you. I agree with many points in your post about how fandom mischaracterize Snape, but I can actually imagine Snape posessing some of the qualities you listed, and do not find these imagination having any conflict with Canon.

For example the "cuts himself when he's sad" Snape, the "horrified by terrible deeds" Snape, the prudish Snape (not because of dignity issues, but because he doesn't trust anyone enough to let someone near), the intellectual Snape, the loner who want to belong Snape, all these can be true. We just have to remember that all these aside, he's the petty Snape with occassional serious emotional outbursts.

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 12:10 pm (UTC)(link)
There's a discussionj going on a bit further up the page regarding this, involing myself, [livejournal.com profile] ellenfremedon, [livejournal.com profile] flourish and [livejournal.com profile] saeva.

The key part of my argument is that usually the above are taken as and written as base characterizations. They are the bedrock on which Snape's personality is built. I don't think that this is canon accurate as such a writing choice is necessary based on conjecture and distorts what little of his personality we do see.

To reiterate:

Snape is a bastard and he hates people. He'd rather spends time with books.

OR

Snape likes books. He pushes people away because he'd rather be reading.

These are very different characterizations, though they may appear similar.

[identity profile] saramwrap.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 01:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree that there are many characterizations of Snape that really don't ring true for me. Or, really, that make me want to weep. I feel for you, I do. I think some authors take a shoddy characterization and run with it, and that's hard to swallow. However, any Snapecentric author has to create a lot from scratch, because there's isn't the wealth of Snape canon that there is for the lead characters. Snape really isn't a focus of the existing books. He's a valuable supporting character, but the books don't pay a lot of attention to him and any inclusion is from a pretty biased perspective.

Your ten "mischaracterizations" illustrate some of the worst, but you're working with extremes. For instance, I hate Ravenclaw!Snape, but that doesn't mean that Snape can't have passion and interest in books, education, or solitary potions-tinkering. We don't have concrete evidence for or against this idea. And all of the sex-related characterizations... ANYTHING in this realm is conjecture. Your criticisms of any sexual elements are mostly as unfounded in canon as the ideas you're criticizing. We're dealing with books that contain no real sexual content or innuendo. How can anyone write accurate smut for canon!Snape when there is no sexual canon to work with?

Don't get me wrong, I read a lot of characterizations that send me shrieking away from the computer. I don't buy a lot of similar ideas. But I think that if someone really tried to write a 100% canon-aligned Snape-centered story, it couldn't made two paragraphs without breaking established canon. And that would be pushing it. And it would be really boring. And if it were an adult story, I don't think it could even be started without breaking canon. We know very little about this character without using speculation, conjecture, psychoanalysis, etc., and at that point, there are as many intricate characterization possibilities as there are authors.

[identity profile] schmevil.livejournal.com 2003-08-25 02:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, if I'm dealing with extremes then your concerns are irrelevant, because any story that takes sex-god!Snape to a true extreme is OOC. Hands down. Do not pass go.

If however, we're talking about run of the mill fics, then I'll have to repeat what I said to [livejournal.com profile] flourish and have now edited my post to include. I'm talking about base characterizations. Not learned/acquired traits, i.e. stories Snape's Ravenclawishness is the root cause of everything else in his personality. The most basic thing you can say about this Snape is that he likes books. He is a bastard because he likes books. He dislikes children because he likes books. He joined Voldemort and then left him because he likes books. I tend to think that the most basic thing about Snape is his terrible disposition. He's contrary at best, brattish, selfish, narcissistic and sadistic at worst. These are all characteristics that I can back up using only his dialogue, which I don't think one can argue Harry is misreporting, as that kind of throws out the idea of there being anything in canon from which to fic.

Regarding sex and kink: sex and kink are about trust and so far, Snape has shown no signs of trusting anyone. Sexuality doesn't come from nowhere, but is intimately related to all other parts of one's life. When JKR shows me a treasured sibling or friend whom Snape feels truly comfortable trusting, then I'll believe that Snape has the potential for expressing his kinks in a sexual relationship. JKR has given us a man so emotionally stunted that he appears to have no close friends and resents and attacks everyone around him. He apparently had friends in his school days, most of whom are dead. He has never built new relationships. I think that argues against his ability to maintain the kind of intimacy that a romantic relationship requires.

I've made certain logical deductions about Snape's character. I could be completely wrong. However, I think I have a better chance of being right, because I've used logic in making my assumptions. I've also taken what little information we have about the character and made that the absolute basis of him, intsead of changing him whole sale. When I write the character, I try to build on top of that base, even when I want my Snape to be AU/AR/AH, or to serve as a didactic device.

If you'd prefer to think of this post as nothing more than a list of my personal preferences, then that's great. I'm certainly not saying "Fuck you, you can't write like this!" I'm just saying that it sucks. ^_^

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Crap! Posted first reply in the wrong place- use this one...

[identity profile] forked.livejournal.com 2003-08-27 09:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Jeesh- posted the response way down below by accident, so trying again!!

1. You didn't quite understand what I meant by base characteristic. A base characteristic is, for lack of clearer terminology, what emotionally drives you.

Yes, I had a feeling I wasn't necessarily reading you right on that. However, I think I still disagree with the idea a single core characteristic forms the basis for one's personality. It just doesn't 'feel' right to me and didn't jibe with vaguely remembered intro pysch classes. So, did a quick google search and found something more representative of how I see the 'core personality'- Genetics & Human Behaviour: Trait definition and measurement (http://www.nuffieldbioethics.org/publications/geneticsandhb/rep0000001017.asp). It's more in line with my perspective, and identifies 'The Big Five' Personality traits: Neuroticism, Extraversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness and Openness to Experience (which vary from 3-7, looks like, depending on who you ask). While Neuroticism and Extraversion-Introversion seem to be the easiest/most consistent measures and predictors, I'm going to talk about 'Agreeableness' and 'Conscientiousness' as I think those two traits most closely fit the two views on canon!Snape we've been talking about. (And yes, I do feel a full blown post coming on ananlyzing Snape's personality. Later. Much later.)

Anyway, I think a lot of what you and others (hell, pretty much everyone in this post) have pointed out is Snape's 'bastardliness'- which seems pretty synonomous with the 'Agreeableness' trait- or rather, his lack there of. 'Agreeableness' is characterized by things like being trusting, altruistic, compliant, modest and tender-minded. Snerk. Snape's the exact opposite. He's a total git.

BUT, I think what I was trying to get out by pointing out what I believe to be instances of bravery and/or responsibility fall under the 'Conscientiousness' trait- characterized by productivity, orderliness, dependability, high aspirations, consistency and rationality (which I know you won't agree with the last ;o).

--Note, I'd add in Snape seems like he'd rank high in introversion, and high on some levels of neuroticism, though not all and we don't have a lot of canon on some of them.

Um- anyway, long assed way of saying I still think narrowing down the conceptualization of Snape's personality to a single trait- i.e. 'bastardliness' or 'disagreeableness' results in a mischaracterization. But again, I think it's because we see 'core personalities' differently. I don't give primacy to a single trait, but rather several which interact to produce out actual behaviors.

On to the second part of the reply below, as this is running long....

Part II of the long assed reply....

[identity profile] forked.livejournal.com 2003-08-27 10:24 pm (UTC)(link)
2. I disagree that canon!Snape is brave.

OK- I'm going to cheat and talk about the 'conscientious' personality trait first, because I think it is a better term for what I was trying to convey with the 'bravery/responsibility' proposal. We're agreed that Snape is a git and just generally doesn't like people and this is a core part of his personality. However, I'd say he has consistently gone out of his way to live up to what he sees as his responsibilities to Dumbledore (and perhaps to the school)- often at some personal risk. I don't think all of these actions can be discounted as being merely self-serving and I think they are driven by a core personality trait that is just as strong and influential as his 'bastardliness' trait.

SS/PS offers plenty of examples. Snape attempts to save Harry at the Q match. He then referees the next match, again in an effort to protect Harry. And I agree- he HATES Harry. Snape goes off on his own with a rampaging troll in the school to ensure that the PS is safe, and he seems to make shadowing Quirrel his personal responsibility.

To me, all of this is going above and beyond the call of duty. He didn't do it because he had to- it isn't like he would lose his job if he didn't step up to the plate. He was one teacher among many- and he was the only one that we know of who took the initiative. To do nothing more than the rest of the professors did would have been perfectly acceptable. BUT, to Snape it obviously wasn't- and this was a duty not to friends but to people he doesn't like!

All of that fits nicely with the 'Conscientiousness' trait- as do other of his behaviors. Snape is generally orderly- he's always busting on Harry for flaunting the rules. He has high aspirations, or at least seemed to when he thought the 'Order of Merlin' was within reach. I also tend to think joining the DE's might be indicative of high aspirations, but we don't really know enough about why. We also know he's dependable- he may not like it when Albus tells him to do something, but he does it anyway. At the end of OotP, he does live up to his responsibilities by contacting the Order and then going into the woods in search of the kids. Who he hates. All of this fits nicely into the 'Conscientiousness' trait.

Crap- ran out of space....

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