schmevil | Avengers AU brainstorm

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Avengers AU brainstorm

A scenario for all you Marvel fangirls and boys. Civil War is drawing to a close. Cap surrenders and is taken into custody, as in canon, but when it comes time for Cap to be killed, an agent notices something is up, and sounds the alarm in time for Cap and the others to get out of the way. Cap lives to stand trial and acquits himself well, but is still convicted. Everyone wants to interview him of course, and unlike in CW, he talks the American people about his ideals, about the immoral aspects of the SHRA and how it has been enforced, and he proposes a new strategy of non-violent resistance. He becomes a symbol for a growing movement to roll back the SHRA.

At the same time, the pro-reg side, realizing they're facing a new kind of threat, one they can't punch into silence, start to (publicly at least) clean up their act. They solidify their power, stitch up the holes in the act, make some showy, public moves to demonstrate their leniency. In this scenario the US government has enough time between crises to make some more permanent appointments, and the Initiative gets a little more bureacratized, and comes under much more public scrutiny. People get used to it, but they also get used to criticizing it.

Then WWH comes along and plays out in much the same way, except that the Initiative manages to co-ordinate a more effective response. Hulk and friends still manage to pwn Earth. Tony still offers amnesty to all non-registered heroes who help out. Afterwards, the Illuminati are censured, but Tony and Reed remain popular, faces of the new and effective partnership between government and superheroes. Some heroes take Tony's offer. In this scenario, the excesses of Registration have been restrained, and it seems to kind of be working. And in Cap, dissenters have an alternative to the New Avengers style of resistance.

So who switches sides? Who registers? Who goes to Cap?

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Huh. I like that scenario for the not-dead-Cap-ness of it, but I don't know how much side switching I think there'd be. Like Luke Cage does not join Steve in taking interviews, you know? And people that are emotionally with him, or on the side of it Not Being Their Problem, like Iron Fist or Wolverine (or any X-person). Clint might come out of the cold, but that's maybe the only person that I for sure think would.

What I wonder is, if Bucky's never motivated to come out of black ops-land to kill Tony Stark, and he never gets offered the shield, does Steve find some other tool with which to save him? Does Bucky find the tools to save himself? Or does that scenario end badly for him (saddest of all, with totally no James/Natasha making out)?

Interesting. I would read this AU.

I was thinking that Veranke might switch sides, if Luke's Avengers diminished as a threat. Peter's another possibility, if Cap's there, actively promoting an alternative to being a fugitive. Clint I'm not sure about. He does like to go his own way. You'd also probably see some reluctantly registered heroes move over to Cap.

Along with Bucky, Falcon would be deeply affected by this change. He only registered after Cap died. I wonder if he'd still be able to get concessions out of Tony (to protect Harlem as he saw fit), without Cap's death weighing on his conscience.

Bucky... I'm going to have to reread to come up with a good answer. Cap certainly wouldn't abandon him, and he'd be able to move Sam, Tony and Clint (at the very least) from within prison, to help him out. I'm not sure what form that help would take, though. Could Steve come up with something as effective as being the new Cap has been for James?

I'm wishy washy on writing it. It would be a blast to plot, and to play with all these different characters. On the other hand, what a commitment!

Okay, I did not realise that we were counting Skrulls. :) But Veranke already switches sides. Switches back, you mean? Switches at a different time?

Yeah, Clint is 100% his own man. But I think what Steve was doing would factor in his decisions a lot, whether he would admit that or not.

Agree on Falc. Can't see him registering in this scenario. I wish there was some Falcon fic post-#25, I think he's in a position for a couple interesting stories to be told. (Possibly I'm just saying that because I'm 'shipping Sam/Sharon a tiny bit now. Whatever.)

Could Steve come up with something as effective as being the new Cap has been for James?

That's the question, for sure. And I think I'm not sure that he could. Poor James.

It would be a blast to plot, and to play with all these different characters. On the other hand, what a commitment!

Yeah, that's true of most AU ideas. Fun, but OMG, the work, right?

I think my main interest in Marvel AUs right now is to do something with SI. I dropped it after the first issue and followed it through

scans_daily but even with that limited contact I was disappointed. So lifeless. So yeah, we're so counting Skrulls. Skrull Jarvis, Dugan and Hank (obviously) are so getting parts.

Switches back, you mean? Switches at a different time?

That's what I was thinking.

Re Falcon/Sharon: honestly, fandom is perverse. Steve/Tony took off like crazy. Meanwhile there are so many other Marvel pairings that quite frankly, have more interesting possibilities. I wrote a handful of S/T fics but I can't deny how awesome a Brubaker CA mini fandom would be. Not just Sam/Sharon, but James/Natasha too.

Sam/Sharon, James/Natasha, James/Sam, James/Tony...you probably already know that I am *so* on board with all of this. I feel the same way about Steve/Tony. But I'm pretty much convinced that fandom hates me at this point, because none of the pairings or fandoms that I want to read are actually out there. I think it's a conspiracy.

I read Secret Invasion (minus the finale, I am waiting on my December comics shipment), and yeah. It was pretty frustrating. There was no reason for it to be eight issues, for one thing. But I read enough of the Marvel U that my reading it was pretty unavoidable.

edit for clarity

James/Tony would take some salesmanship to work, imho. I have visions of it being "the new Harry/Draco, but with more angst omg!" Possibly HP fandom scarred me. *g* But Sam/James is classic slash. New possibility: BuckCap/Batroc? Gen or slash. I'd read it.

I saw the announcement for a Steve/Tony Big Bang and honestly, all I felt was disappointment that it was a Marvel Big Bang. Either that or a challenge that might push people to write in new directions. Like an old/alternate canon challenge. I'd love to see a larger Marvel fic community again. In the 90s there was a sizable Xfic community, but even that's withered away. Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge people their otp fun, but I think Marvel as a whole as so much more to offer.

But I'm pretty much convinced that fandom hates me at this point, because none of the pairings or fandoms that I want to read are actually out there.

I hear you. I've been spending all my time for the last few years in smaller fandoms, or niches in large ones. I noticed you were talking about Entourage RPF - does that in fact exist?

But I read enough of the Marvel U that my reading it was pretty unavoidable.

I'm primarily a trade buyer, so it's easy for me to avoid the Events! the big two are so enamored with. As far as I can tell, it's made me a far happier comics fan than most.

James/Tony would take some salesmanship to work, imho.

Oh, it surely would. Harry Potter references go over my head, so you know. But if that's the love/hate pairing, then yeah, totally. I just think there's a whole, they both loved Steve, and now they're sorta working together in his memory kind of angle in there. The fact that they just tried to kill each other only makes it more exciting. :)

BuckCap/Batroc? Gen or slash. I'd read it.

Huh. Interesting.

I would have *loved* a Marvel Big Bang. I am toying with the idea of doing some kind of comm/challenge in the spring, even though I bailed out if the last Marvel challenge I signed up for. Hmmn, maybe I should just finish those stories.

I noticed you were talking about Entourage RPF - does that in fact exist?

Heh. No. Just the two I wrote. But there's only really the two big actorfic fandoms, and when I started babbling about Stargate RPF a few years ago, that didn't exist either. Everyone thought I was insane, in fact. I'm at a stage where I don't worry about it. There's usually an audience, either way, plus OMG Entourage boys!

But someone to write it for *me* would be nice. OMG Entourage boys.

I want to work on building up Marvel fandom, I really do. But I don't know if I have the time to devote to that kind of thing. Writing the big stories that build a fandom, running challenges - it's all so time-consuming. I wish someone would just step up and do it for us. *g* I don't know, I've got some Ms. Marvel plot bunnies, so maybe I'll explore them and see where that takes me. Her book is selling, so there must be an audience for stories about the character, right?

I wonder if there's a Marvel flashfic comm... that's always a good fandom-builder. Must investigate.

I am toying with the idea of doing some kind of comm/challenge in the spring, even though I bailed out if the last Marvel challenge I signed up for. Hmmn, maybe I should just finish those stories.

Which one was that?

OMG Entourage boys.

Gah, srsly.

I wonder if there's a Marvel flashfic comm... that's always a good fandom-builder. Must investigate.

There used to be a drabble one. I think it died. I was thinking of like an Avengers and Avengers-related type comm, vaguely modeled on

xmen_on_lj, but with fic and fannish things. That way I can sneak in Bucky/Natasha and Luke/Danny, plus Ms. Marvel totally counts too.

I'd love an exchange challenge, personally. I missed having one at the holidays. And I would read Ms. Marvel fic! Despite not knowing her that well. :)

Writing the big stories that build a fandom, running challenges - it's all so time-consuming. I wish someone would just step up and do it for us.

Hear, hear.

Oh, and the challenge I bailed due to circumstances beyond my control on was

marveloustales. They were good prompts, too. (All three of them. I suck.)

Will likely post fic about cute Entourage boys in a couple days. :)

I did some checking. There's a comm called

mighty_avengers but it's... yeah. Very much dominated by one poster, very few comments, and no fic or art.

"avengers_assemble" appears to be free. An umbrella comm for the team that welcomes fanworks and discussion would definitely work - everyone and their dog has been in the Avengers, so we'd be casting a wide net, in terms of potential members. And everyone in Marvel fandom has a handful of favourite Avengers. I'd be willing to help run it, if I could convince others to pitch in.

I'd love an exchange challenge, personally.

I love exchanges. I actually prefer them to writer's choice, prompt-based ficathons. There's something about knowing you're writing for someone that makes it both more challenging, and more satisfying. At least for me. I thought about doing

marveloustales but in the end there weren't enough prompts that grabbed me.

Will likely post fic about cute Entourage boys in a couple days. :)

Looking forward to it.

Dude, I totally had it in my head that I had replied to this.

avengers_assemble would be a great name! I would be willing to help run it too. But it sounds like, between the two of us, we would actually need a mod who reads comics on Wednesdays, no? Otherwise discussion Wednesdays would have no one to guide them :(

But the fandom totally needs a comm like that. I don't really hang out with enough Marvel-ites to think who a third mod could be, though.

I prefer exchanges too. Prompt-based challenges are, sadly, so much easier for me to bail on. With exchanges I know how much work that is for the mod, and how much it would suck for me to be blacklisted.

Avengers Assemble is too long. Woe. There's a max of fifteen characters, which could allow us AvengerAssemble, but that's just utterly ridiculous. All variations on The Mighty are taken. Marvel Avengers is a possibility. Any thoughts?

I'm not sure who to ask either. An alternative to a third mod, if we can't find a good prospect to start, is recruiting a bunch of fans, each of whom would be 'in charge' of a specific book. So if I was the Ms. Marvel poster, I'd have to start a Ms. Marvel thread, with a recap, scans or commentary, by the end of the week in which it was released. I wouldn't be responsible for modding, but I should be around to guide the discussion.

I was thinking a spotlight feature would be good. We could get people to sign up for writing a spotlight on their favourite Avenger, Avenger-related organization or whatever. That way we could bring attention to some of the lesser known characters, and the potential membership of the comm should be larger for it.

I prefer exchanges too. Prompt-based challenges are, sadly, so much easier for me to bail on.

Yeah, this.

avengers_hq? (avengers_mansion sadly being also too long and avengers_tower just not as cool.)

is recruiting a bunch of fans, each of whom would be 'in charge' of a specific book

That's neat! And only a once a month commitment. Assuming we can get people to stick to it. (I claim Immortal Iron Fist! Heh.) The spotlight thing sounds neat too, people could do 'ship manifestos and themed recs and stuff like that too, we could have specific times set aside.

So. Should we do it? Once we pick a name?

We totally should. I reserved Avengers_HQ, in case we want to go with that. We can always change or delete. I do like it. It's better than the alternatives! :D

I'm calling Ms. Marvel, though you probably expected that. I don't think it will be hard to find people to sign up for New, Mighty and Dark Avengers. Maybe

elspethdixon would do Mighty - she's crazy about old school Avengers.

For primary books we should look for someone to commit to:

Captain America
Hulk
Incredible Hercules
Ultimates (when it's actively being published)
Black Panther
Avengers Initiative
Invinvcible Iron Man
Thor
War Machine
Marvel Adventures: the Avengers
Wolverine
Daredevil

After that there's:

Avengers Fairytales
Avengers/Invaders
Ultimatum
Amazing Spider-Man Family
Wolverine Origins
Savage She-Hulk (upcoming replacement for She-Hulk)
and all the minis

That... looks like a lot but I don't think it will be in practice.

The spotlight thing sounds neat too, people could do 'ship manifestos and themed recs and stuff like that too, we could have specific times set aside.

Mmmm yes. Manifestos are great community anchors. I find myself going back to the ones on Ship Manifesto even years later.

The advantage of a spotlight feature is that we'll have regular fan essays and meta, which will encourage deep discussion. <3

That list looks ok, especially since, not all of those are always being printed and always on the same weeks. I am wondering about:

Avengers/Invaders is limited edition, there's only four issues left to go IIRC. We could do a wrap-up after ish #12 maybe (I can lead it, I read that), but I don't know that it's worth it to find a full-time...whatever we're going to call them. Person.

There's a couple more that I can take if no one wants them and we're stuck, also.

I hear news of a new Young Avengers mini. Would we be including the YA generally?

Wolverine. I think that list is missing more Wolverine books, like there's Wolverine: First Class, right? And something else I'm blanking on? Keeping up with Logan could be a full time job. I wonder if there' a way to amalgamate so that one person can do it.

What about MA: Iron Man? Or is that done?

Otherwise, looks good. Regular fan essays sound awesome. And some sort of fic challenge type thing once everything is running smoothly. I think, given the controversial nature of some of these titles, we need some kind of anti-bashing rule (or not *need*, but I personally would feel more comfortable, especially since I usually like the things that are getting bashed. Probably other people would too.) To be stridently worded and evenly applied.

Thoughts on that?

We should definitely include the YA. They're a significant part of the Avengers landscape now. There's an upcoming New Avengers: Dark Reign thing, which we should cover, and at some point they may do another 'season' of the mainline YA book. Wolverine First Class, yeah, we should add that to the second tier of books. I think those are the only Wolvie ongoings, although there was Old Man Logan, which I skipped. Ugh. Spider-Man will be the same kind of problem - if we can't find one person to take on the commitment, maybe we should double up on those two? MA:IM was cancelled. Though I think MA:SM is still going.

I'm wondering if we should make provisions for switching out our Reviewers (?) after a period of time, to make room for fresh faces. Give them a term of several months, after which someone else can take over, if there's someone who wants to. Otherwise they can continue for another term? I realize I'm making longterm plans for a comm that doesn't exist yet, but hey, it doesn't hurt to be prepared, right? ;)

An anti-bashing rule is a must. I know a number of Iron Man and Hank Pym fans left

scans_daily due to all the bashing. Maybe something like... "Abusive, derogatory and discriminatory language is not tolerated at The HQ. Please respect the feelings or your fellow fans, by not directing such language towards them, comics creators, or the characters we're all here to celebrate. Bashing is not welcome here."

Along with the standard rules I'd like a "no soliciting illegal downloads, or posting links on the comm" rule. Eljay will delete comms if copyright owners request it. So no more than half a comic can be posted, including previews, at any time in the comm. Not even under flock, because people do inform. Comics fandom is reeeeally small.

What's our spoiler policy?

And are we settled on Avengers HQ, or is there an awesome name we haven't thought of yet? ;)

I'm wondering if we should make provisions for switching out our Reviewers (?) after a period of time, to make room for fresh faces.

Makes sense. Regular rotations? With the amount of time any one person gets, to be a function of how many people signed up for that topic? Reviewers is fine, or hmmn. I wonder if there's a word that more implies leader of conversation.

I know a number of Iron Man and Hank Pym fans left scans_daily due to all the bashing.

*cough* And Brian Michael Bendis fans? Yeah. I heard that happened...

Anyway, that draft of the anti-bashing rule looks good.

An anti-piracy rule is fine with me. So is the Avenger HQ name. :)

What's our spoiler policy?

Warnings for everything no matter how old seems reasonable to me, just b/c in this fandom you never know who gets around to reading what when. But it maybe prove impractical to police? What do you think?

Well, 'moderator' is the obvious synonym. There's also 'chair' or 'chairperson' which plays into the Avengers theme, but is a bit corny. The Wolverine Chair? :D Captain? Lead/er?

Regular rotations? With the amount of time any one person gets, to be a function of how many people signed up for that topic?

Sounds good.

Warnings for everything no matter how old seems reasonable to me, just b/c in this fandom you never know who gets around to reading what when. But it maybe prove impractical to police?

That might be hard to police but it's probably the best way to go. I would say... no spoilers for recent comics can be before the cut, and you must warn for spoilers in all posts, whether essays, fic, vids or scans. Kind of a two tier spoiler policy, where new information from newer comics is considered *more* spoilery, but *everything* is potentially spoilery. That way, if a poster inadvertently spoilers others for say, Secret Wars, we don't have to come down with the mod hammer, but just remind them to warn. Makes the comm a bit more flexible.

What other rules should we discuss...?

No uncut, embedded vids or large images. What's a good size?

Obviously we'll want a standard posting format for fic, essays, scans, icons, graphics...

TITLE
AUTHOR
BOOK
SPOILERS
DISCLAIMER
RATING (work safe/not work safe for essays and scans, maybe MPAA for fic because it's commonly used?)
SIZE (word count, pixels, number of images)

Also, we need an awesome layout. :)

We do need an awesome layout. :) Know anyone we can cajole/con/bribe? I can ask about.

I think I thought of moderator but that would be *our* title, right? I don't want to confuse who has what power. Lead or captain, perhaps.

That spoiler thing sounds good.

More than one image goes behind a cut? What is it at s_d, more than six panels or something? Or do you mean file size? *has high speed and is not a good judge of what constitutes a large file*

I think that's all the obvious things? I hope? People will no doubt come up with random things to stump us.

At s_d we just changed it too one preview image, max of 400x300 (or 300x400 of couse). For the dialuppers, but also for the people who have lots of picture comms on their flist. Even with high speed it can get slow when every post is six big pics, with 20 posts per page.

I find that generally, the more stuff that gets cut, the happier the comm is, because it's easier for people to skip stuff they aren't interested in.

Maybe lead? Captain sounds like we're trying to be cutesy.

We do need an awesome layout. :) Know anyone we can cajole/con/bribe? I can ask about.

My two closest graphics-y friends are writing school stuff right now (a dissertation and a book), so I don't want to bother them.

How do we want to launch this? The layout and rules should be up before we announce the comm, but should we recruit volunteers before or after? Maybe an announce with an intro post and some promotion in other comms and newsletters, then follow that up with a call for volunteers?

http://community.livejournal.com/avengers_hq/profile

What we have so far.

Profile page looks good to me. As long as the blurb makes it a bit clearer what type of content we do accept. It's to the point and hopefully not so long as to go unread. I have someone I will ask about the graphics themselves, and I can probably do the lj layout part. (I mean, I know I can, I just don't usually bother because I'm not super-fast at it.)

That sounds reasonable, about the un-cut picture rule.

I realise I'm not clear what we decided about Spiderman and Wolverine leads? Or should we attempt to just get one for each book and not treat them differently at all?

I think, once we're ready, a call for volunteers explaining what the plan is and books we need coverage for, deadlines, etc. Like a list and we can mark the volunteers names beside the titles. What about extra-topic posts? Should we put up a call for writers of those then or later? We could probably do those in waves, like have set months and make schedules based on who signs up.

I don't think we did decide anything about the Spider-Man and Wolverine leads. If we can get multiple leads, that's probably ideal, but I'll settle for one person on each of the two main books.

What about extra-topic posts?

We should try to get those scheduled way in advance, in case someone needs to bow out. 1-2 months? So we could push to line up the first two at least, but go further if people want to sign up that far ahead.

What else is left... the blurb, a links list. Anything else?

A couple of Avengers images I'm digging:

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Avengers AU brainstorm

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