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The boob window/why Ms. Marvel?
I need to reorganize my comics. They're in stacks all over my room, and taking up two shelves that I need for my three-layers-deep-books. Probably it's time to consign some of them to the longbox, but then the question becomes: where the eff does the longbox go? Crisis.
Usually I've got the latest issue of Comic Store News on top of one of the stacks. I like combing through it for weird new releases that don't get press OL. This one had a huge promo for the new Power Girl ongoing. (Which I will most definitely be picking up on Wednesday, along with whatever FCBD books my comics guy decided to pull for me. ILU D!) My brother saw the promo, and... hell.
He's a gamer, an aficionado of horror and action movies, cartoons and humour of questionable taste. He took one look at that promo and went "Oh fanboys." Not in so many words. No, his actual words were, "What the fuck?" Followed by approximately two minutes of derisive laughter. So I then had the unenviable task of explaining the boob window. I relayed the every-issue-they-got-a-little-bigger story, and the one about the window being a space that needed to be filled by a symbol. Of course, Karen never found that symbol and the boob window, the space in need of filling, remains. I told him about the endless fannish merry go round of boob window controversies.
And then I realized something. Somewhere along the way I stopped seeing the boob window. Of course I was literally seeing the boob window, and acknowledging it as cheescake. But I'd stopped seeing how it would look to people outside of comics fandom. I'd stopped thinking about it.
"And they... just kept it like that?" he finally asked.
"WOW: Night Elves," I said in response.
We have this thing, where we relay stories about our respective fandoms: what ridiculous new games/comics/SF shows are coming out; what fresh embarrassment our fellow fans have served up. And of course, it's not just fanboys, but fangirls, creators, publishers and network hacks. The boys bring the misogyny more reliably, but the girls are just as capable. What we kept coming back to is this: how goddamn embarrassing will it be to buy this book outside of the dm? At say, a convenience store, or a chain bookstore. As embarrassing, surely, as it was to buy those Greg Horn issues of Ms. Marvel, when I was between comic stores. As embarrassing as the Benes issues of Birds of Prey.
And yet, I like Peeg the way she is. The boob window is her most recognizable look. I'm not sure that I'd be comfortable with a redesign that wasn't completely spectacular. These days we get boob window and an impressive musculature; cheescake and epic asskicking. And yet. Empowered, which makes no bones about its chesscakeness, is actually less embarrassing to me.
***
On an unrelated note,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
jazzypom asked me to talk about Carol Danvers a while back. Consider this a preview of a longer post, scheduled sometime post term.
Carol Danvers is a soldier, turned storyteller, turned superhero. When her father decided that it was more important for his sons to attend college than his daughter, she joined the USAF and put herself through school that way. She worked her tail off, becoming one of their best, and when injuries incurred in the field grounded her, she moved into intelligence, and later security. When she hit too many roadblocks in the way of further career advancement (lol girls), she left, and wrote a couple of books about her experiences. She started another book about a (female) astronaut friend, and did freelance work that she later parlayed into an editorship at JJJ's Woman Magazine. When JJ wanted recipes and reviews of the latest beauty products, she pushed for real social and political content. She finally left, to pursue superheroing full time, which she did by herself, and on her own terms.
Then it starts to get disturbing. She joins the Avengers and things seem to be going well. She's contributing to the team and building relationships with other characters. Until suddenly, we get the infamous Rape of Ms. Marvel. Incredibly, she actually managed to come back from this. Only, whoops! She gets attacked by Rogue, losing her powers, memories and emotional life. Again, amazingly, she comes back. This time as a peak human fighter, adventuring with her new friends, the X-Men. You know what comes next, right? She's held by the Brood, who decide to perform invasive experiments on her intriguing half human, half Kree physiology. In the process, they manage to reactivate her powers, and take them to their fullest potential. She becomes Binary: a cosmic hero who draws her power from a star, and the evolutionary endgame of humans and Kree.
Of course, by now we know that it can't stay this way, right? Her connection to the star is broken, of course. Her power levels are drastically diminished, of course. She comes back to earth and falls into drinking, of course. After she finally crawls her way out of the bottle, she gets to spend the next eight years of comics trying to get back to where she first started out.
Distilled to its barest bones like this, her history reads as convoluted and bizarre. It is undeniably both of things. But through it all there's one thing that remains constant: Carol is a fighter. No matter how many times you knock her down, no matter what strange new sexualized violence she's subjected to, no matter how her life gets wrecked, she picks herself back up, spits in the face of those who wronged her, and finds a new way to live. On her own terms.
As it stands, she's a powerhouse with the innate potential to be even more powerful. She's an experienced fighter, with or without powers, and a skilled tactician who's absolutely willing to fight dirty. She is by turns bitter and hopeful, and above all, driven. She's not a peacemaker, a detective, or a reluctant hero. She's a missile in human form, and she will fuck you up.
Usually I've got the latest issue of Comic Store News on top of one of the stacks. I like combing through it for weird new releases that don't get press OL. This one had a huge promo for the new Power Girl ongoing. (Which I will most definitely be picking up on Wednesday, along with whatever FCBD books my comics guy decided to pull for me. ILU D!) My brother saw the promo, and... hell.
He's a gamer, an aficionado of horror and action movies, cartoons and humour of questionable taste. He took one look at that promo and went "Oh fanboys." Not in so many words. No, his actual words were, "What the fuck?" Followed by approximately two minutes of derisive laughter. So I then had the unenviable task of explaining the boob window. I relayed the every-issue-they-got-a-little-bigger story, and the one about the window being a space that needed to be filled by a symbol. Of course, Karen never found that symbol and the boob window, the space in need of filling, remains. I told him about the endless fannish merry go round of boob window controversies.
And then I realized something. Somewhere along the way I stopped seeing the boob window. Of course I was literally seeing the boob window, and acknowledging it as cheescake. But I'd stopped seeing how it would look to people outside of comics fandom. I'd stopped thinking about it.
"And they... just kept it like that?" he finally asked.
"WOW: Night Elves," I said in response.
We have this thing, where we relay stories about our respective fandoms: what ridiculous new games/comics/SF shows are coming out; what fresh embarrassment our fellow fans have served up. And of course, it's not just fanboys, but fangirls, creators, publishers and network hacks. The boys bring the misogyny more reliably, but the girls are just as capable. What we kept coming back to is this: how goddamn embarrassing will it be to buy this book outside of the dm? At say, a convenience store, or a chain bookstore. As embarrassing, surely, as it was to buy those Greg Horn issues of Ms. Marvel, when I was between comic stores. As embarrassing as the Benes issues of Birds of Prey.
And yet, I like Peeg the way she is. The boob window is her most recognizable look. I'm not sure that I'd be comfortable with a redesign that wasn't completely spectacular. These days we get boob window and an impressive musculature; cheescake and epic asskicking. And yet. Empowered, which makes no bones about its chesscakeness, is actually less embarrassing to me.
***
On an unrelated note,
jazzypom asked me to talk about Carol Danvers a while back. Consider this a preview of a longer post, scheduled sometime post term.Carol Danvers is a soldier, turned storyteller, turned superhero. When her father decided that it was more important for his sons to attend college than his daughter, she joined the USAF and put herself through school that way. She worked her tail off, becoming one of their best, and when injuries incurred in the field grounded her, she moved into intelligence, and later security. When she hit too many roadblocks in the way of further career advancement (lol girls), she left, and wrote a couple of books about her experiences. She started another book about a (female) astronaut friend, and did freelance work that she later parlayed into an editorship at JJJ's Woman Magazine. When JJ wanted recipes and reviews of the latest beauty products, she pushed for real social and political content. She finally left, to pursue superheroing full time, which she did by herself, and on her own terms.
Then it starts to get disturbing. She joins the Avengers and things seem to be going well. She's contributing to the team and building relationships with other characters. Until suddenly, we get the infamous Rape of Ms. Marvel. Incredibly, she actually managed to come back from this. Only, whoops! She gets attacked by Rogue, losing her powers, memories and emotional life. Again, amazingly, she comes back. This time as a peak human fighter, adventuring with her new friends, the X-Men. You know what comes next, right? She's held by the Brood, who decide to perform invasive experiments on her intriguing half human, half Kree physiology. In the process, they manage to reactivate her powers, and take them to their fullest potential. She becomes Binary: a cosmic hero who draws her power from a star, and the evolutionary endgame of humans and Kree.
Of course, by now we know that it can't stay this way, right? Her connection to the star is broken, of course. Her power levels are drastically diminished, of course. She comes back to earth and falls into drinking, of course. After she finally crawls her way out of the bottle, she gets to spend the next eight years of comics trying to get back to where she first started out.
Distilled to its barest bones like this, her history reads as convoluted and bizarre. It is undeniably both of things. But through it all there's one thing that remains constant: Carol is a fighter. No matter how many times you knock her down, no matter what strange new sexualized violence she's subjected to, no matter how her life gets wrecked, she picks herself back up, spits in the face of those who wronged her, and finds a new way to live. On her own terms.
As it stands, she's a powerhouse with the innate potential to be even more powerful. She's an experienced fighter, with or without powers, and a skilled tactician who's absolutely willing to fight dirty. She is by turns bitter and hopeful, and above all, driven. She's not a peacemaker, a detective, or a reluctant hero. She's a missile in human form, and she will fuck you up.
no subject
Carol & Tony are one of my friendship OTPs. I honestly think that they should be better friends than canon allows. Their relationship is interesting, in that it's at times a classic bromance (geeking out over heavy metal, literally, teasing the hell out of each other), and at others kind of, dare I say it, nurturing. Carol often gets coded as masculine, almost as often as Tony gets coded as feminine, and their relationship is accordingly queered (and yet also not). It's also interesting that they're canonically attracted to each other, care deeply for one another, and have the sense to never let it get more serious than the lightest flirtation.
I think they have... similar outlooks, while being very different personalities. They have different problem solving approaches, different biases, hell, different experiences. But they have enough in common to work really, really well together. I appreciate moments like Avengers/Invaders, Busiek's run, bits of CW and the 90s IM comics, that show how they click. Their worlds and their methods overlap far more than do say, Tony and Steve's. Carol&Tony is a lot like Rhodey&Tony.
I think she and Power Girl would get along really well.
Oh definitely. Interestingly, Peeg also has a bizarro history full of sexualized attacks and reboots. And like Carol, a dearth of canonical love interests.
no subject
Some day, I will actually sit down and write a piece of meta on gender coding in Iron Man and Ms. Marvel, because the two of them do tend to be given the opposite gender's coding more than is usual. I suspect it's one reason why Tony seems to be the designated uke (okay, bottom/sub, he doesn't blush or weep enough to be an uke) in Steve/Tony fandom -- people pick up on that, whether they realize it or not, and Steve, converse, gets very much coded as the classic Male Heroic Guy.
Carol&Tony is a lot like Rhodey&Tony.
When I try to ship them in my head, both of those pairings sort of crash and burn for some of the same reasons, too, but they would both be gloriously hot trainwrecks-in-the-making while they lasted. And therefore I'm glad canon has never gone there for Tony and Carol, because they've both had enough romantic trainwrecks already.
no subject
And therefore I'm glad canon has never gone there for Tony and Carol, because they've both had enough romantic trainwrecks already.
Hells yes. Although I could see a movieverse Tony and Carol having a fling, and then settling into a friendship. Movie Tony has less baggage.
I think Tony/Carol would only work longterm under vastly changed circumstances. In 616 as it is, they'd... grate. I could see them becoming romantic partners, as an extension of a longterm military/heroing partnership. Sort of a wartime love affair?