but 'allies' don't get called on their screw ups

[schmevil]

So I hear this one a lot. And sorry, the idea that allies don't get called on their screw ups is ridiculous. I've been issued so very many privilege checks over the years that I can't remember all of them. Here's a recent example, if you're looking. I made a joking post about places where hateful humour can still safely find refuge (ie. what you can still get away with joking about) but my wording was utter fail, and I got called on that.* And that's as it should be. I don't know any sincere allies who think they're unimpeachable moral arbiters. I may not intend to hurt people, but when I do, I deserve to get called on it. I may not intend to do or say something racist, misogynistic, ableist, or transphobic, but when I do? I should be called on it. Nobody gets a free pass, and no one will ever have done enough to be 'above suspicion'.


* I also got called on using the term 'fucktard'. There's a subthread that goes into the whys of that exchange, but suffice it to say that it's part of an ongoing conversation about those kinds of words, and the hows, whys and whens of their social acceptability. Used context-free as it was in the linked post though, it was indeed offensive, and I apologize.

(And er, apologies to anyone posting in that thread, who wondered why it disappeared for a day. idek what happened there but I've fixed all the security settings on my entries. I think).

Comments

[torachan]

I was sort of :-/ when I saw that post, but just scrolled by. (Saying X is the last form of acceptable bigotry is never a good move, IMO, because it downplays the fact that racism, sexism, and other "classic" isms are actually quite acceptable still.) But wow, the comments. D: Such a load of fail in there.

[schmevil]

(Saying X is the last form of acceptable bigotry is never a good move, IMO, because it downplays the fact that racism, sexism, and other "classic" isms are actually quite acceptable still.)

Yeah, agreed. I was going for shock humor with that post, and I think I just ended up with ASSHOLE. So much fail on my part.

Transphobia and furbashing are things I've been seeing show up in popular humour, without any sugarcoating or self-awareness. But as Valtyr points out, hating on 'trailer trash' or 'chavs' seems to get a free pass too, no matter how blatantly hateful it gets. Misogyny does too, but it's often... cloaked? The writers seem to know that what they're saying is problematic, and try to insert work arounds. Especially when it comes to rape humour. Seth Rogen raping... I forget who, in that mall cop movie: she may not have consented, but she liked it! Vince Vaughn being raped in Wedding Crashers: well, he liked it in the end and that's all that matters.

Which comments? Are you thinking of the cosplay thread, and the furries=just fetishists threads?

[torachan]

Yeah, the whole "they're too X to really be trans, so I'll disrespect their stated identity" and "ew, furries! They're gross fetishists, so it's totally cool to bash them!" thing. >_<

[schmevil]

I didn't really know how to address the cosplay thread. I was trying to feel her out, and nudge her towards realizing that while no doubt, there are fake-every-identity in fandom, it's ridiculous (and horrible) to assume that others are... play-trans, for some mysterious reason. (I actually know a woman who pretended to be a trans man irl). People can express their identity however they like, and it's not for you to decide that they aren't doing it right.

Sometimes I just don't know how to handle all the stuff that comes out in these discussions, and I'm left flailing silently. I need better tactics.

"ew, furries! They're gross fetishists, so it's totally cool to bash them!" thing. >_<

Yeah, that was very... special.

[penguinparity]

(This is tanzy from LJ, btw). Re: The Poster of the Cosplay thread. She's always been a bit.... unsympathetic to questions and issues of identity politics when it comes to cosplaying. I hesitate to say it's transphobia, but if I'm being completely honest with myself it might be and I'm just hesitant to say it because I've been her friend half my life and we were best friends in high school and part of college. :/

I remember in particular an incident about 6 or 7 years ago when a male cosplayer got kicked out of a fairly large convention for crossplaying (cosplaying and cross dressing) as a scantily clad Fay from Cowboy Bebop. Part of the so called 'problem' was that unlike other crossplayers, he didn't shave (and was pretty hairy). Thus he did not fit the effiminate model of the male crossplayer. There was a pretty large controversy over it and I think I remember her agreeing with people that claimed he was just using claims of homophobia and transphobia as way to get attention.

Speaking of tactics, I also really have no idea how to respond to the bottom thread on the LJ version of this entry. I don't really know what to say to "I feel like you're attacking me and making me feel like a bad person."

[schmevil]

Also, I'm really sorry.

I didn't mean to hurt anybody, but I screwed up large with that post.

[torachan]

No problem.

[dirty_diana]

The idea that any group is being singled out to be judged unnecessarily is just, man. If I had the spoons for ranting right now? I'd be all up in my journal like AN EIGHT YEAR OLD KNOWS THAT WORDS HAVE CAN HAVE CONSEQUENCES! ffs.

[schmevil]

*hugs* One of the things I think is happening is... fear of systematic defense, rather than ad hoc.

For example, when people just occasionally called people out and dogpiled in Scans Daily, it wasn't a source of widespread bawing on the part of privileged people. It was even expected. But now that we've got it in our rules that leeway will be given for people losing their temper while under attack (ie. we won't ban you for punching a Nazi; why yes, Cap did write our ethos), people are running scared. Another example - now that anti-oppression efforts are commonly talked about in fannish circles, calling out has taken on a certain sense of... formality? It's not just an isolated incident of calling out bigoted jerks, it's part of a wide-ranging effort.

That seems to turn anti-oppression dialog into a boogie man, somehow. Now oppressed groups have Real Power and they're going to use it to... take away all our privileges? Fight back? Make us feel bad? I'm not sure, but I think something happens in the move from anti-oppression efforts (that aren't necessarily understood in that way) to the kind of interconnection and awareness we're seeing in fandom now. It's kind of analogous to the outage that crops up in response to affirmative action and equity programs. It's all well and good to fight for social justice. Until it Becomes Too Big, you know?

But yeah, I just don't get it. There is manifestly not one group of people being targeted. Just looking at the various fails, pan fandom and intra fandom will make this obvious. Different people will fail, show their asses, stand up and fight, be great allies, in different fights. None of them are the same. And they for damn sure don't have the same players. So yeah... where's the idea of a campaign against this mysterious targeted group come from? It's such a fantasy.

[dirty_diana]

One of the things I think is happening is... fear of systematic defense, rather than ad hoc

Yes. Well, there's always been that, I think. The belief that minority groups get some sort of fun or benefit out of calling out privilege, to the point where they can be expected to just start making things up and attacking the privileged at random. Because we're all irrational and oversensitive, you know?

Also? There's predominantly a theme of this fear of the privileged members being silenced. Which blows my mind, as we've sort of talked about. Having to think before (generic) you speak is not the end of the world; in fact, most folks already have to do so! The fact that you never have is itself a sign of your privilege. Not a sign that you're being picked on. (But of course it's impossible to know how to combat that, in a situation like you've got there. The "right to free speech" of certain groups is SO systemic and invisible. The whole point of being privileged is that people who look and live like you usually get to be heard, and be right, you know? and the entire planet is designed to back that up.)

It's all well and good to fight for social justice. Until it Becomes Too Big, you know?

*nod* Yeah. It was very noticeable how many folks would state, yeah, the transphobic comment was bad...and then follow it up with a string of buts. But not that bad, but the trans members overreacted, but the trans members should have been more polite, etc. Transphobia is bad! But not so bad that anyone actually needs to do anything. (Except for the transfolk, who need to adjust their attitudes so that the privileged don't have to think about them anymore.)

So yeah... where's the idea of a campaign against this mysterious targeted group come from? It's such a fantasy.

I guess if you've never been asked to be quiet before, the only reason anyone would want you do so now would be if there was some sort of conspiracy afoot? I get, intellectually, that for a lot of people there's just this wall of experience in place. But it doesn't make it any less frustrating.

[valtyr]

I suspect it's because when you're doing oppressed folk a 'favour', you can feel self-satisfied. The idea that actually, it's basic good behaviour means there's a lot less fun it it.

It's the difference between charitable giving and taxes, I guess; it's all very well to play Lord/Lady Bountiful, but heaven forbid people act like they have some kind of right to be respected and considered.

[schmevil]

PS. Kyle/Fish! *squishes them*

I need an icon. And to catch up on their story. I haven't been watching clips for a couple of weeks.

[dirty_diana]

They've both been on the last couple weeks, but mostly separately. The show is doing a big February sweeps snowstorm/Mitch Lawrence thingie. But when the boys are both home safe and sound, I imagine there will be cuddling. Even if only in our heads. :)