Your thoughts on yaoi

[schmevil]

Although I read (and sometimes write) slash, I've never really considered slash to be an important part of my fannish identity. I'm as likely to fall for a het ship, or femslash ship, as a slash ship, and it's even more likely for me to not ship much of anything at all. And although I have many friends in the slash community, I don't consider it to be my fannish home base.

So what makes a slasher? Are you a slasher? Why do you consider yourself to be (or not to be) a slasher?

[Poll #1347864]

Comments

[tammylee.livejournal.com]

I may be a slasher but I ain't a shipper.
I'd have to say I'm a slasher because while I will write Genfic I very very rarely write hetfic.

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

Do you know why you don't write het? Lack of interest, lack of audience, something else?

[tammylee.livejournal.com]

If a couple is two men and one of them takes the submissive role or acts a bit femme etc. it is an entirely different dynamic than if he were actually a woman.

When you introduce a real woman (I like women in dominant roles actually) who is submissive I get a horrible taste in my mouth because suddenly I've got misogyny/objectification/etc. weighing down my mind and it goes from an escapist fantasy that pushes my sexy buttons to something that mirrors reality too much and pushes my angry buttons.

[dirty-diana.livejournal.com]

I'm like you. There's a fourth part though, which is that certain parts of fandom "treat" me like a slasher, whether I think of myself that way or not. (And certain parts treat me like a hetshipper, it just depends what they're used to seeing from me I guess? And who my friends in that fandom are?)

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

There's a fourth part though, which is that certain parts of fandom "treat" me like a slasher, whether I think of myself that way or not.

Yeah, this. I'm not prolific enough to develop a reputation, I don't think. But depending on the fandom I have inadvertently 'passed' as an exclusive slasher, hetshipper, or gen writer.

And who my friends in that fandom are?

And this.

[parsimonia.livejournal.com]

I'm more into genfic than anything else, but I will read slash on occasion. I'm not really into het or slash, smut or romance, to begin with. My tendency not to read slash probably stems from me usually being very canon-oriented, so I have a low tolerance for plots or pairings that I can't see happening in canon. But once and I while I'll read something different.

That said, being a member of s_d, I certainly enjoy contemplating the slashy subtext in things.

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

I'm very canon-focused in my fannishness too, but when I find a fandom that inspires me to write fic, I'm comfortable straying very far from canon. I've never been much for filling in the gaps - I'd rather take the story in another direction entirely. *g*

I guess I alternate between high concept AUs and domestic, character studies. In Smallville I wrote a story about Lex and Clark eating pie, but I also wrote a story about Lex finding religion and disassembling the universe. I think the main reason I don't write a lot of slash, is that I don't write a lot of romance, period.

Do you tend to stick to fic that reads as an extension of canon?

[parsimonia.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I tend to go for fill-in-the-gaps/behind-the-scenes type stuff, or ones that are based on current canon and kind of speculate from there.

Then again, if it's crack/comedy, I don't care if it breaks canon extensively.

I also tend to like short fics or drabbles, as I often don't have the time or patience to keep up with long or multi-chapter ones. One exception that I can think of, though, is shoebox_project (when I still read HP fic), but I think I started reading that before books 6 and 7, so it was technically less AU then.

[sandoz-iscariot.livejournal.com]

I've written it all (gen, het, slash, femmeslash) and don't really consider myself one over another...my current OTP is slash though, and that's what has my fannish attention lately.

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

What's your current OTP? I'm between OTPs at the moment.

[sandoz-iscariot.livejournal.com]

Nite Owl/Rorschach. (Currently battening down the hatches for when all hell breaks loose in March. >_> )

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

I definitely identify as a slasher, in a very strong way. Most of what I read or write is slash. I occasionally read gen, but usually only if it's gen featuring characters I often slash together. Same with writing gen fic. And since I discovered slash, I think I've only gone for three het ships, period. (I think; I'm probably forgetting someone.) But I didn't read fic for those ships, I just cheered for them in canon.

On top of all of that, regardless of whether I get into the fandom for a show, I almost inevitably find a slash couple in it. It's hard for me even think of a fandom where I haven't done that; even the fandoms in which I have het ships also have slash ships.

Even my discussions in fandom slant strongly towards the slashy side of things.

I found a niche I really enjoy, and I pursue that with considerably focus. *g*

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

Slash goggles. :)

Does that mean you're not going to read my inevitable Avengers gen and het? ;)

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

Slash goggles. :)

Possibly surgically affixed ones. *g*

Does that mean you're not going to read my inevitable Avengers gen and het? ;)

:-) With gen and het, the answer is always "it depends".

[scottyquick.livejournal.com]

I'm a slasher/slash fan/slash reader/femslasher/fem slash fan/fem slash reader/het fan/het reader, my current OTP is slash, but I wouldn't say I'm exactly a yaoi fan. Yaoi tends to be chicks with dicks, where as slash is generally guys who are actually guys.

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

What's your current OTP?

I'm iffy about yaoi too. I've been reading a lot Weiss Kreuz yoai lately, and it's so hard to find stories that don't have a seme/uke thing going on, or just no guys in sight. I find myself sticking to writers I know from slash fandom.

You can find some strangely effeminate guys in slash too, which would be cool, if it wasn't usually so out of character for the typical subjects of slash.

[bradygirl_12]

I like variety in my writings and readings, but the majority of my taste is slash and has been for years. I definitely enjoy femslash, too. :)

I hadn't written het in years until I decided to delve into a more modernized version of Wonder Woman with her pre-Crisis love, Steve Trevor. Believe me, the irony of writing an Amazon's soulmate as male doesn't escape me ;) though I also write her in a femslash relationship (Black Canary).

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

I don't write much het because most of my hetships are canon and like kyuuketsukirui says below, I find canon pretty satisfying in that respect.

the irony of writing an Amazon's soulmate as male doesn't escape me ;)

Hey, believe it or not, I'm pulling for Gail Simone to do something awesome with Diana/Tom, and that's anathema to a lot of fans.

I've always liked the Diana/Steve relationship, whether romantic or friendly, and I wish he could have a presence in her current comics. I'm a sucker for the from-different-worlds kind of relationship, where they learn from each other. I also think it's important for Diana, even more so than Bruce or Clark, to have deep connections to 'ordinary people'.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

I read and write slash more than anything else, though I also love good het and gen stories. But I'm lazy in terms of reading, so I mainly read what my flist writes or recs, which means mostly slash.

In terms of pairings I ship, I tend to ship mostly het, though, because I usually ship canon pairings, and canon pairings tend to still be mostly het these days. But I don't like to write about canon pairings because of possible jossing, plus I feel like canon is usually satisfying in that regard. The big exception is Louis/Lestat from Vampire Chronicles, which is why I got into fanfic in the first place. Canon m/m pairing that came to a very unsatisfactory end! D:

I never call myself a slasher, though, because to me, the way I see it used is not just for people who read/write slash. It's for people who really see it as part of their identity and how they interact with canon/the world. I don't have slash goggles and fail utterly at picking up subtext, so I just don't interact with the text in the same way people who identify as slashers seem to do. Some even see it as part of their sexuality. Also, those people often tend to go heavy on the by women, for women rhetoric, which makes me feel very alienated.

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

*nod* at everything you've said.

I'm glad you raised the issue of slash as being part of one's sexuality. As much as there are some yaoi and slash tropes that get me worked up, I don't think of 'slasher' as being integral to my lived, sexual experiences, or even my fantasy life. One thing I've learned over the years is that those tropes work for me whether the people involved are bio-male, bio-female or something else. That said, reading slash, yaoi and by-men-for-men erotica has definitely influenced my relationships with men.

Also, those people often tend to go heavy on the by women, for women rhetoric, which makes me feel very alienated.

Why do you feel alienated? Not pushing - I'd just like to hear more of your thoughts on this. I've never been entirely comfortable with it myself.

[quietprofanity.livejournal.com]

I consider myself a slasher, even if there are aspects of the community that exhaust me and I don't feel the need to slash EVERYTHING or consider my favorite m/m couples canon or even THE WAY THINGS SHOULD BE. Actually, in three of my OTPs, I really like one half of the couple's canon or ex-canon girlfriend. (Peter/Harry & MJ, Dante/Randal & Veronica or Becky, Rorschach/Nite Owl & Silk Spectre II -- actually, the last one is starting to move into OT3 territory with me.)

Anyway, most of my stories ARE slash-oriented, so if the shoe fits, you know? I DO write femmeslash occasionally, and actually am maybe more open to femmeslash than slash pairings because I really like female characters, but I think being only a little bisexual stunts my imagination in that area. (I consider myself a 1 on the Kinsey scale.) Gen I've also written -- mostly in Spider-Man because for awhile the canon just sucked. Well, the canon STILL sucks, but now it sucks so hard I don't really want to "fix it."

Which kind of comes to why I get inspired to write fanfic -- if the work doesn't have an aspect that I WANT to see, then I feel the need to write it. Which is why I usually don't write any of the canon m/f couples I really like -- I can see that in the work. Of course, I did write about a canon m/m couple having sex and the creator even wrote sex fanfics, so I could just be a pervert who is full of shit.

I've also figured out that despite trying to get into it, I don't like yaoi. This is kind of strange, since I liked Gravitation, which most people think of as the nadir of seme/uke shonen ai, but at least the show itself was fun and kept me interested. I've found a lot of yaoi to be either really boring or really stingy on the payoff. (This one time I bought two yaoi DVDs. The first one ended up having NO SEX despite what it said on the box -- I felt a lot like Dr. Venture watching The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas that day. The second one had sex but their penises were invisible. I gave up after that.)

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

I consider myself a slasher, even if there are aspects of the community that exhaust me and I don't feel the need to slash EVERYTHING or consider my favorite m/m couples canon or even THE WAY THINGS SHOULD BE.

Yeeeeah. This is something that bugs me too. Especially when it gets extended to 'shout outs' or 'attacks' from the writers Like how many Remus/Sirius shippers felt betrayed by JKR's lack of interest in the pairing, and argued that she'd got it wrong. ;)

Which kind of comes to why I get inspired to write fanfic -- if the work doesn't have an aspect that I WANT to see, then I feel the need to write it. Which is why I usually don't write any of the canon m/f couples I really like

*nod* Me too. Although the few times I pushed myself to write my canon m/f ships, I had a lot of fun with it.

Like I said to someone else upthread, yaoi is iffy for me. There's something about the aesthetics of it that I can't get into for the most part. That said, there are a handful of fandoms in which I enjoy yaoi. Quite often they're fandoms with a lot of stories that could be called slash, or a lot of stories by slash writers. Somehow the yaoi-ier stories become more palatable with slash to balance them.

The second one had sex but their penises were invisible.

Happens in m/f and f/f hentai too. Such a ripoff. *g*

[dlasta.livejournal.com]

I consider myself a slasher, even if there are aspects of the community that exhaust me and I don't feel the need to slash EVERYTHING or consider my favorite m/m couples canon or even THE WAY THINGS SHOULD BE.

I *so* agree. :)

[dlasta.livejournal.com]

I slash because I see it. It's not the only thing I have going on but I do wear the slash!goggles pretty much all the time. I should probably say subtext!goggles. It's not like I only see gay people. :)

(I remember being in my early teens and *really* excited about the relationship between Picard and Q and not getting how other people couldn't see it.)

[schmevil.livejournal.com]

I never got into Picard/Q. My only Star Trek slash ship is K/S. But I don't really have many ST ships in general.

How did you get into slash? Did you 'see' it and then get into slash fic, or did get into the fic first? I mean, did you deliberately seek out say, P/Q fic, after seeing a sexual aspect to their relationship?